5 ms·

I don't buy this line. Toxic personality types are a hallmark of the technology sphere and they are typically given a free pass on such behavior in the name of

I don't buy this line. Toxic personality types are a hallmark of the technology sphere and they are typically given a free pass on such behavior in the name of meritocracy. The problem for Gebru is that her particular type of toxicity is not palatable to the entrenched culture, merit be damned.

manigandham 6y ago
Those free passes ended years ago as can be seen by many high-profile removals and resignations (for both corporate policy and social pressure reasons).
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  "Those free passes ended years ago as can be seen by many high-profile removals and resignations (for both corporate policy and social pressure reasons)." Linus still has a job, AFAIK. So does Lennart Poettering. Both have plenty of defenders on HN. That's not to mention people like Peter Thiel and his fans.
  - free_rms 6y ago
    Linus had like one outburst a year in between spending all day every day reading/writing emails. And a bunch of them weren't actually hostile to his team, they just got taken out of context. He'd refer to a userspace program they had to keep from breaking as a "braindead abortion" or something and people would report it as if he said it to/about a kernel developer.
- root_axis 6y ago
  I think it's fair to say there is less tolerance for certain extremes in public spaces, but practically speaking the meritocratic mentality still rules the day. If you're a well-known public face of an organization you might have to watch what you say in public (but not always, e.g. Elon), but this is the exception not the rule.
ralusek 6y ago
Her particular type of toxicity is the only reason she remained employed for as long as she did.
- root_axis 6y ago
  What do you mean? Are you saying she was undeserving of the position based on her qualifications?
  - 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
    I think they mean that a brilliant asshole of a different type of assholery would have been fired much sooner. The fact that she’s qualified is separate.
    - root_axis 6y ago
      Ah, I see. I would say in response that we're pretty much at a subjective impasse then. The thrust of my argument is that brilliant assholes are generally well tolerated. By "asshole" I don't mean someone who got canned for a harmless joke, I'm talking about toxic aggressive egomaniacs who wield their expertise and prestige as a cudgel to demean and abuse their colleagues.
      - 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
        I think we're in agreement, to a degree. There are some types of asshole that the industry has agreed to not tolerate. Then they say "See? We don't tolerate any kinds of assholes! You have to partner well and communicate well with people now!" Even though they absolutely do still tolerate certain kinds of assholes, like the kind you mean, and, to a degree, people who wield popular ideas like a cudgel. I feel like the industry has at least made big leaps forward. Went I joined (during the great recession) it felt way worse, but I've also found a great company, so maybe I'm insulated in a kind bubble.
        root_axis 6y ago

manigandham 6y ago

Those free passes ended years ago as can be seen by many high-profile removals and resignations (for both corporate policy and social pressure reasons).

pmoriarty 6y ago
"Those free passes ended years ago as can be seen by many high-profile removals and resignations (for both corporate policy and social pressure reasons)." Linus still has a job, AFAIK. So does Lennart Poettering. Both have plenty of defenders on HN. That's not to mention people like Peter Thiel and his fans.
- free_rms 6y ago
  Linus had like one outburst a year in between spending all day every day reading/writing emails. And a bunch of them weren't actually hostile to his team, they just got taken out of context. He'd refer to a userspace program they had to keep from breaking as a "braindead abortion" or something and people would report it as if he said it to/about a kernel developer.
root_axis 6y ago
I think it's fair to say there is less tolerance for certain extremes in public spaces, but practically speaking the meritocratic mentality still rules the day. If you're a well-known public face of an organization you might have to watch what you say in public (but not always, e.g. Elon), but this is the exception not the rule.

ralusek 6y ago

Her particular type of toxicity is the only reason she remained employed for as long as she did.

root_axis 6y ago
What do you mean? Are you saying she was undeserving of the position based on her qualifications?
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
  I think they mean that a brilliant asshole of a different type of assholery would have been fired much sooner. The fact that she’s qualified is separate.
  - root_axis 6y ago
    Ah, I see. I would say in response that we're pretty much at a subjective impasse then. The thrust of my argument is that brilliant assholes are generally well tolerated. By "asshole" I don't mean someone who got canned for a harmless joke, I'm talking about toxic aggressive egomaniacs who wield their expertise and prestige as a cudgel to demean and abuse their colleagues.
    - 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
      I think we're in agreement, to a degree. There are some types of asshole that the industry has agreed to not tolerate. Then they say "See? We don't tolerate any kinds of assholes! You have to partner well and communicate well with people now!" Even though they absolutely do still tolerate certain kinds of assholes, like the kind you mean, and, to a degree, people who wield popular ideas like a cudgel. I feel like the industry has at least made big leaps forward. Went I joined (during the great recession) it felt way worse, but I've also found a great company, so maybe I'm insulated in a kind bubble.
      - root_axis 6y ago