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> Looks like the Great America is woke and hates you for the word 'union' you used in your comment. Someday maybe our betters in Europe will understand that th

> Looks like the Great America is woke and hates you for the word 'union' you used in your comment. Someday maybe our betters in Europe will understand that the American experience with unions is different than that of Europeans. And that American unions are a very different animal. Until that time, though, keep thinking we're just idiots.

stainforth 6y ago
The destruction of unions in America was not for righteous reasons.
- nickff 6y ago
  Previously-unionized industries declined in America, and new industries have been slow to unionize; I am not sure unions have been 'destroyed'.
  - MereInterest 6y ago
    So-called "Right to Work" laws mean that a union-negotiated contract may be made available to non-union members. At that point, the individually rational action is to leave the union, keep the dues, but benefit from the union's negotiation. As everybody does this, the union declines. "At-will employment" laws mean that the burden of proof for the cause of firing is on the employee, rather than the employer. This gives free rein to employer's to fire workers considering unionizing, so long as there is the barest pretext of another cause. As forming a union becomes economically risky, unions decline, or fail to form in new industries. Unions have been attacked in the US, through explicit policies meant to defund unions, and to prevent unions from forming.
- eeZah7Ux 6y ago
  The level of anti-union violence in US is higher that what people might think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence
theshrike79 6y ago
"Union" and "Socialism" have very different meanings on your side of the pacific :) Just the stories about how union work is handled on US movie sets is just baffling. Directors can't even touch the lights without an Official Light Mover Union member doing it. If they do, all union people will just walk off set and that's the end of it. In most European countries unions are more about collectively agreeing to some basic rules like wage, hours worked and other compensations.
dvtrn 6y ago
Someday maybe our betters in Europe will understand that the American experience with unions is different than that of Europeans. In ways that no one should be proud of, and anyone with a conscience should at least recognize needs redressing-even if the outcomes are things they as an individual wouldn't directly benefit from.
jusssi 6y ago
I don't feel shame for shaming unjust downvoters (that said, I've upvoted your comment, too). A short googling for for "history of workplace safety in the us" reveals that unions had a hand in at least that. Probably in several other things you take for granted. In my opinion it's a mistake to think that things like that cannot deteriorate away after they've been achieved once.

stainforth 6y ago

The destruction of unions in America was not for righteous reasons.

nickff 6y ago
Previously-unionized industries declined in America, and new industries have been slow to unionize; I am not sure unions have been 'destroyed'.
- MereInterest 6y ago
  So-called "Right to Work" laws mean that a union-negotiated contract may be made available to non-union members. At that point, the individually rational action is to leave the union, keep the dues, but benefit from the union's negotiation. As everybody does this, the union declines. "At-will employment" laws mean that the burden of proof for the cause of firing is on the employee, rather than the employer. This gives free rein to employer's to fire workers considering unionizing, so long as there is the barest pretext of another cause. As forming a union becomes economically risky, unions decline, or fail to form in new industries. Unions have been attacked in the US, through explicit policies meant to defund unions, and to prevent unions from forming.
eeZah7Ux 6y ago
The level of anti-union violence in US is higher that what people might think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence

theshrike79 6y ago

"Union" and "Socialism" have very different meanings on your side of the pacific :) Just the stories about how union work is handled on US movie sets is just baffling. Directors can't even touch the lights without an Official Light Mover Union member doing it. If they do, all union people will just walk off set and that's the end of it. In most European countries unions are more about collectively agreeing to some basic rules like wage, hours worked and other compensations.

dvtrn 6y ago

Someday maybe our betters in Europe will understand that the American experience with unions is different than that of Europeans. In ways that no one should be proud of, and anyone with a conscience should at least recognize needs redressing-even if the outcomes are things they as an individual wouldn't directly benefit from.

jusssi 6y ago

I don't feel shame for shaming unjust downvoters (that said, I've upvoted your comment, too). A short googling for for "history of workplace safety in the us" reveals that unions had a hand in at least that. Probably in several other things you take for granted. In my opinion it's a mistake to think that things like that cannot deteriorate away after they've been achieved once.