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I was never required to write Marxist literary criticisms of poetry. I learned rhetoric. I learned to write clearly and concisely, and I learned to write persua

I was never required to write Marxist literary criticisms of poetry. I learned rhetoric. I learned to write clearly and concisely, and I learned to write persuasively. Correct grammar is not sufficient for effective communication.

souprock 6y ago
Lucky you. English classes are normally a load of hot garbage. Concise writing would earn an F. That stuff you learned is still not college material. It's remedial. OK, yes, there are remedial classes taught at most colleges, sadly enough. It's not justification to mandate that normal students take English classes in college.
- learc83 6y ago
  Freshman English classes are generally English composition classes not literature classes. More often that not they have nothing to do with Marxist literary critique. If you think that English composition shouldn't be taught in college, you clearly haven't ready many undergraduate essays. It's fine for you to think that this information should be remedial. Looking at the writing of "normal" students, it clearly isn't. Also most schools offer a CLEP exam for English composition, so if you consider the information remedial, you can easily skip it.
  - souprock 6y ago
    Well, maybe we shouldn't have 2/3 of the population attempt college, and maybe we shouldn't let every warm body with a pulse graduate from high school. Truth is that English classes in high school are also often a load of hot garbage, because evidently the teachers prefer politics and art over teaching English. For my own kids, the solution is homeschooling, with dual-enrollment in a community college starting at age 11 to 13. Community college seems to have less of the hot garbage than a typical 4-year school would.
    - learc83 6y ago
      That’s a different argument. If most college students are lacking a skill, teaching it is by definition not remedial. A class on Ancient Greek isn’t remedial just because the top 1% of society that went to college in the 19th century learned it in secondary school. I’ve never had experience with English teachers who teach art and politics instead of English, but then again American school systems are very diverse. You might want to consider that before you make generalizations. You also might want to consider whether you have enough real evidence to hold such strong opinions on the state of English education.

souprock 6y ago

Lucky you. English classes are normally a load of hot garbage. Concise writing would earn an F. That stuff you learned is still not college material. It's remedial. OK, yes, there are remedial classes taught at most colleges, sadly enough. It's not justification to mandate that normal students take English classes in college.

learc83 6y ago
Freshman English classes are generally English composition classes not literature classes. More often that not they have nothing to do with Marxist literary critique. If you think that English composition shouldn't be taught in college, you clearly haven't ready many undergraduate essays. It's fine for you to think that this information should be remedial. Looking at the writing of "normal" students, it clearly isn't. Also most schools offer a CLEP exam for English composition, so if you consider the information remedial, you can easily skip it.
- souprock 6y ago
  Well, maybe we shouldn't have 2/3 of the population attempt college, and maybe we shouldn't let every warm body with a pulse graduate from high school. Truth is that English classes in high school are also often a load of hot garbage, because evidently the teachers prefer politics and art over teaching English. For my own kids, the solution is homeschooling, with dual-enrollment in a community college starting at age 11 to 13. Community college seems to have less of the hot garbage than a typical 4-year school would.
  - learc83 6y ago
    That’s a different argument. If most college students are lacking a skill, teaching it is by definition not remedial. A class on Ancient Greek isn’t remedial just because the top 1% of society that went to college in the 19th century learned it in secondary school. I’ve never had experience with English teachers who teach art and politics instead of English, but then again American school systems are very diverse. You might want to consider that before you make generalizations. You also might want to consider whether you have enough real evidence to hold such strong opinions on the state of English education.