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I am 100% for reducing the amount of cars on the road but this logic doesn't really work when you've driven in from out of town and there aren't sufficient park

I am 100% for reducing the amount of cars on the road but this logic doesn't really work when you've driven in from out of town and there aren't sufficient parking garages.

epistasis 6y ago
Cars are terrible for cities, they make everything about cities worse. So if we are to have both cars and cities, what's needed is a mode change. If you can't afford the cost of renting the space to put your car, a better solution would be to put the inefficient land use of parking where land is cheap, and provide access to the transit system from there. Whether it's parking at commuter rail, or parking on a lot that has bus service.
- candiodari 6y ago
  Except that's not happening and you can't have a family without cars.
  - epistasis 6y ago
    Of course it’s happening, that’s what the article is all about. It’s what other commenters here are talking about. And all the families that currently live high quality loves, without cars, in these places would find your assertion about “can’t have a family without cars” absolutely comical. For large chunks of the US, top down urban planning has forces people in most areas to own cars. But it doesn’t have to be that way, it was a choice that was made, and a choice that can be changed.
    - candiodari 6y ago
      I would love to hear your answer on how to carry 1 week's worth of groceries for a family of 5 home without a car ... Because honestly, I just can't.
      - epistasis 6y ago
        It's kind of hard for me to see what the problem is. Most of the world doesn't have the problem that you say is intractable. So doing a web search, I found this that says that North Americans really are a complete outlier on grocery shopping habits. https://priceonomics.com/how-the-world-shops-for-groceries/ https://priceonomics.com/how-the-world-shops-for-groceries/ I live in NA, but a grocery store is an easy walk, and was on my daily commute in pre-COVID times. This makes me an outlier among North Americans I guess. But it would be the norm for places that allow for car free life. The following is therefore speculation, but the best I can come up with to try to meet you where you are. Right now, your car based life is so inconvenient and so inefficient, that stopping by a store is something to be minimized, to do as infrequently as possible. So to you, going to the store more than once a week is an inconvenience. You have to drive somewhere special outside of your normal route, park, walk a long distance from the car to the store, wander around a store so large that the idea of stopping and grabbing something quick is almost inconceivable. You likely even have to wait in line, because checking out a single person with a full week of groceries takes many minutes. Once we allow the possibility of not living with a car, which means all of your daily needs within walking distance, an entirely new world opens up that is much more convenient. There is a smaller, well stocked store along most routes you take. Grabbing groceries for a day or two is not an affair that has an extra half hour of driving and walking. It's a quick hop in and out. You can always have fresh food, because you stop frequently and quickly, without having to wait a week in between trips because to shop more frequently would be wasteful of time. Run out of sugar? No big deal, it's conveniwnt to buy some more. Once cars are gone and cities are designed around that, everything is more accessible and convenient. I mean, the whole thread started with how life in cities so not need cars, and how having cars in cities ruins life there. And for that matter, much of small town life can be similar to cities, because there, needs can also be within walking distance for a small compact town. It's only car-based suburbia with highly restricted unmixed land uses that leads to this "I can only go the grocery store once a week" attitude. Life does not have to be that way, people that want it should be able to live like that, and those that don't want it should be able to have walkable lives. Walkable areas mean more accessibility than car-based areas, because stopping does not involve parking.
        6y ago
  - JacobSuperslav 6y ago
    many people have families without cars in big European cities.
the_duke 6y ago
Drive to the edge of town and take public transport from there. This is a common concept in some European cities, with large parking garages directly attached to the subway/train stations.
esoterica 6y ago
Street space is even more limited than parking garage space. If space is so constrained that there isn't any free garage space how can there possibly be free street area available for parking?

I am 100% for reducing the amount of cars on the road but this logic doesn't really work when you've driven in from out of town and there aren't sufficient parking garages.

epistasis 6y ago

Cars are terrible for cities, they make everything about cities worse. So if we are to have both cars and cities, what's needed is a mode change. If you can't afford the cost of renting the space to put your car, a better solution would be to put the inefficient land use of parking where land is cheap, and provide access to the transit system from there. Whether it's parking at commuter rail, or parking on a lot that has bus service.

candiodari 6y ago
Except that's not happening and you can't have a family without cars.
- epistasis 6y ago
  Of course it’s happening, that’s what the article is all about. It’s what other commenters here are talking about. And all the families that currently live high quality loves, without cars, in these places would find your assertion about “can’t have a family without cars” absolutely comical. For large chunks of the US, top down urban planning has forces people in most areas to own cars. But it doesn’t have to be that way, it was a choice that was made, and a choice that can be changed.
  - candiodari 6y ago
    I would love to hear your answer on how to carry 1 week's worth of groceries for a family of 5 home without a car ... Because honestly, I just can't.
    - epistasis 6y ago
      It's kind of hard for me to see what the problem is. Most of the world doesn't have the problem that you say is intractable. So doing a web search, I found this that says that North Americans really are a complete outlier on grocery shopping habits. https://priceonomics.com/how-the-world-shops-for-groceries/ https://priceonomics.com/how-the-world-shops-for-groceries/ I live in NA, but a grocery store is an easy walk, and was on my daily commute in pre-COVID times. This makes me an outlier among North Americans I guess. But it would be the norm for places that allow for car free life. The following is therefore speculation, but the best I can come up with to try to meet you where you are. Right now, your car based life is so inconvenient and so inefficient, that stopping by a store is something to be minimized, to do as infrequently as possible. So to you, going to the store more than once a week is an inconvenience. You have to drive somewhere special outside of your normal route, park, walk a long distance from the car to the store, wander around a store so large that the idea of stopping and grabbing something quick is almost inconceivable. You likely even have to wait in line, because checking out a single person with a full week of groceries takes many minutes. Once we allow the possibility of not living with a car, which means all of your daily needs within walking distance, an entirely new world opens up that is much more convenient. There is a smaller, well stocked store along most routes you take. Grabbing groceries for a day or two is not an affair that has an extra half hour of driving and walking. It's a quick hop in and out. You can always have fresh food, because you stop frequently and quickly, without having to wait a week in between trips because to shop more frequently would be wasteful of time. Run out of sugar? No big deal, it's conveniwnt to buy some more. Once cars are gone and cities are designed around that, everything is more accessible and convenient. I mean, the whole thread started with how life in cities so not need cars, and how having cars in cities ruins life there. And for that matter, much of small town life can be similar to cities, because there, needs can also be within walking distance for a small compact town. It's only car-based suburbia with highly restricted unmixed land uses that leads to this "I can only go the grocery store once a week" attitude. Life does not have to be that way, people that want it should be able to live like that, and those that don't want it should be able to have walkable lives. Walkable areas mean more accessibility than car-based areas, because stopping does not involve parking.
      - 6y ago
- JacobSuperslav 6y ago
  many people have families without cars in big European cities.

the_duke 6y ago

Drive to the edge of town and take public transport from there. This is a common concept in some European cities, with large parking garages directly attached to the subway/train stations.

esoterica 6y ago

Street space is even more limited than parking garage space. If space is so constrained that there isn't any free garage space how can there possibly be free street area available for parking?