4 ms·

I've driven once in Paris, and people seemed to drive very aggressively. If they never find a parking space on top of that regular chaos, I guess we are going t

I've driven once in Paris, and people seemed to drive very aggressively. If they never find a parking space on top of that regular chaos, I guess we are going to create some angry French drivers in the "city of love".

dimva 6y ago
Maybe they should stop driving around a major city with world-class public transportation and excellent bike infrastructure? That's what I did when I moved to NYC after a year of frustrated searching for parking.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  Yeah, public transit around Paris is a delight, there's no reason for a car there.
- elric 6y ago
  Might need a boost in capacity. Metro/RER during rush hour isn't all that much fun. Though one could argue that rush hour is a problem that needs to be tackled separately.
- bjarneh 6y ago
  > after a year of frustrated searching for parking :-)
quartz 6y ago
People get angry because there's JUST ENOUGH parking for it to be worth it to chaotically circle and fight over spots. I'd imagine reducing spaces to the point where the assumption is "there is no parking" instead of "if I fight hard enough I can find a space" would actually reduce the number of people searching and driving in the city center in the first place. Similar to the observation that expanded highways don't actually reduce congestion, they just attract more cars.
- corty 6y ago
  If there is an increase in traffic after you have expanded the highway, you are going in the right direction. If it is levelling off, you have gone far enough. Then congestion will reduce. The argument that more roads do attract more cars just shows that we are still planning in a state of poverty. It is completely backwards. It is like saying "don't give the starving more food, they'll just eat more, and more starving will beg".
jeromenerf 6y ago
I live there, with a flat in Paris and a house 50km away. Commuting by car or public transport takes 1h30 to 2h, so up to 4 hours a day on the bad days. Traffic is terrible. Parking is terrible. Train is OK ish and comfortable enough to work or read. Some trains (RER) are awful. Working remotely, 3 days a week around the weekend is the best. People indeed becomes quite aggressive, even if somehow disciplined. I worked in south India earlier this year, and I found people there completely undisciplined on the road, but very friendly. Like line splitting in front of a bus with a friendly smile and a gentle press on the horn.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >People indeed becomes quite aggressive, even if somehow disciplined. I worked in south India earlier this year, and I found people there completely undisciplined on the road, but very friendly. Like line splitting in front of a bus with a friendly smile and a gentle press on the horn. Exactly. There's local norms of conduct for traffic everywhere. There's standards for acceptable aggression and obliviousness (and other attributes). Paris, India, etc are all low on obliviousness. If you expect to be able to just blindly follow markings and signals and think that all you have to watch out for is the car in front of you you are going to have a bad time. India is lower on aggressiveness because the nature of the traffic there really doesn't lend itself to that. Likewise if you try to drive like you're in Rome in a wealthy American suburb or somewhere else where high obliviousness is the norm you're gonna piss a lot of people off because you're not gonna behave the way they expect.
  - jeromenerf 6y ago
    Paris drivers as a whole respect the rules. At least many orders of magnitude more than in Madurai in my experience. The difference is how drivers reacts to the deviation from the rules. In Paris, it seems that revenge is preferred. If you honk me, I squeeze you. Or push the brakes violently. Then finger. Rome is more exotic but a lot quieter in fact. A lot less crowded too.

dimva 6y ago

Maybe they should stop driving around a major city with world-class public transportation and excellent bike infrastructure? That's what I did when I moved to NYC after a year of frustrated searching for parking.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
Yeah, public transit around Paris is a delight, there's no reason for a car there.
elric 6y ago
Might need a boost in capacity. Metro/RER during rush hour isn't all that much fun. Though one could argue that rush hour is a problem that needs to be tackled separately.
bjarneh 6y ago
> after a year of frustrated searching for parking :-)

quartz 6y ago

People get angry because there's JUST ENOUGH parking for it to be worth it to chaotically circle and fight over spots. I'd imagine reducing spaces to the point where the assumption is "there is no parking" instead of "if I fight hard enough I can find a space" would actually reduce the number of people searching and driving in the city center in the first place. Similar to the observation that expanded highways don't actually reduce congestion, they just attract more cars.

corty 6y ago
If there is an increase in traffic after you have expanded the highway, you are going in the right direction. If it is levelling off, you have gone far enough. Then congestion will reduce. The argument that more roads do attract more cars just shows that we are still planning in a state of poverty. It is completely backwards. It is like saying "don't give the starving more food, they'll just eat more, and more starving will beg".

jeromenerf 6y ago

I live there, with a flat in Paris and a house 50km away. Commuting by car or public transport takes 1h30 to 2h, so up to 4 hours a day on the bad days. Traffic is terrible. Parking is terrible. Train is OK ish and comfortable enough to work or read. Some trains (RER) are awful. Working remotely, 3 days a week around the weekend is the best. People indeed becomes quite aggressive, even if somehow disciplined. I worked in south India earlier this year, and I found people there completely undisciplined on the road, but very friendly. Like line splitting in front of a bus with a friendly smile and a gentle press on the horn.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>People indeed becomes quite aggressive, even if somehow disciplined. I worked in south India earlier this year, and I found people there completely undisciplined on the road, but very friendly. Like line splitting in front of a bus with a friendly smile and a gentle press on the horn. Exactly. There's local norms of conduct for traffic everywhere. There's standards for acceptable aggression and obliviousness (and other attributes). Paris, India, etc are all low on obliviousness. If you expect to be able to just blindly follow markings and signals and think that all you have to watch out for is the car in front of you you are going to have a bad time. India is lower on aggressiveness because the nature of the traffic there really doesn't lend itself to that. Likewise if you try to drive like you're in Rome in a wealthy American suburb or somewhere else where high obliviousness is the norm you're gonna piss a lot of people off because you're not gonna behave the way they expect.
- jeromenerf 6y ago
  Paris drivers as a whole respect the rules. At least many orders of magnitude more than in Madurai in my experience. The difference is how drivers reacts to the deviation from the rules. In Paris, it seems that revenge is preferred. If you honk me, I squeeze you. Or push the brakes violently. Then finger. Rome is more exotic but a lot quieter in fact. A lot less crowded too.