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Just today, US/UK had a small exchange over who is best at vaccine approval process: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/12/03/world/covid-19-coronavirus/as-the-u

Just today, US/UK had a small exchange over who is best at vaccine approval process: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/12/03/world/covid-19-coronavirus/as-the-uk-claims-bragging-rights-for-the-best-vaccine-regulators-yes-really-us-officials-beg-to-differ https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/12/03/world/covid-19-coron... Any time, any one who brings up their nation as being the best - I've got no room for you in my life. I despise nationalism and national pride in all forms. It only breeds hatred and unproductive relationships, and creates echo chambers. This goes for all countries. We're tiny blobs of muttering meat in the universe. Temporarily here.

arvinsim 6y ago
It's natural human instinct to seek tribes.
- Quekid5 6y ago
  True, but that doesn't mean that it's a good thing or that it shouldn't be resisted.
  - zpeti 6y ago
    To just throw out the evolutionary workings of not only humans, but many of our animal ancestors is extremely naive. You are suggesting you know better than a system that millions of years of evolution have created. You are also assuming that you know all the risks of NOT organising in tribes, that somehow if all humans were some untribal lonely individual entities, the world would work better. Many many billions of people and animals seem to disagree.
    - sgift 6y ago
      We know better than evolution all the time. Else: No medicine, no operations, no science (random list of things, more can be added). Doesn't sound like a very good world to me.
      - remarkEon 6y ago
        No we don’t. All of these thing you mention are simply attempts to attenuate evolution, not conquer it. Moreover, all of the things you mention are a new feature set developed from evidence given to us by evolution.
        TeMPOraL 6y ago
        Evolution is already conquered. Done. Defeated. We've left it behind when we invented language and writing. About the only area where biological evolution is relevant now is pathogens, because these evolve on timescales comparable to technological development of humans.
        remarkEon 6y ago
        The arrogance in this response is palpable. Humans managed to create a means to communicate with each other. End of evolution right there. We figured out germ theory and then vaccines. The DEATH of human evolution. We have the Internet now so that must mean human evolution just stops, because integrated circuits or something. We look back on proto-humans, who had many tools, with the same arrogance. There’s no reason our species won’t evolve further to look back on the “internet” and laugh. Timescales, huh.
        TeMPOraL 6y ago
        Yup, it's all about timescales. Fact: in large animals like humans, with long lifespans and low reproduction rates, evolution takes thousands of years to fixate any change in the population. That's about the time human civilization existed. In those few thousand years, we went from primitive tools to germ theory, vaccines, rocketry, etc. (and most of interesting developments happened in the last few hundred years; we're riding an exponent here). Evolution for humans just doesn't matter, because at this point, we're doing meaningful changes to ourselves and our environment at a rate faster than it takes for a human to reach reproductive age. We didn't wait for evolution to adapt us to colder climate, fix our eyesight or change melanin levels; we just developed clothes, glasses and sunscreen - which also made these features not influenceable by natural selection pressures. And whatever mutation happens that doesn't kill a person, we work around it socially or technologically - which means its impact on reproductive fitness is usually close to zero. Biological evolution is no longer the force driving the shape of our species. There is an evolution of humans happening, but it's social and technological, not biological.
    - Quekid5 6y ago
      That's not at all what I'm suggesting. My point is merely that you cannot derive an ought from an is. (I suspect most of us agree about what is, but we probably agree a lot less about what ought to be.) I'm suggesting that it might be wise to try to keep our baser instincts at bay -- as well as we can, at least. Sure, we'll fail from time to time (or often even), but that doesn't mean we should give up that struggle.
  - mklarmann 6y ago
    I feel a tribal connection with all the people that do good.
  - ScottBurson 6y ago
    I feel a tribal connection with all the other people in this thread who agree with you.
- machinelabo 6y ago
  Definitely. Sports in a benign way and through wars in a catastrophic way. The internet has created other strongly bonded echo-chambers. Elon Musk lovers/haters for example.
dis-sys 6y ago
> We're tiny blobs of muttering meat in the universe. Temporarily here. can not agree more on this

arvinsim 6y ago

It's natural human instinct to seek tribes.

Quekid5 6y ago
True, but that doesn't mean that it's a good thing or that it shouldn't be resisted.
- zpeti 6y ago
  To just throw out the evolutionary workings of not only humans, but many of our animal ancestors is extremely naive. You are suggesting you know better than a system that millions of years of evolution have created. You are also assuming that you know all the risks of NOT organising in tribes, that somehow if all humans were some untribal lonely individual entities, the world would work better. Many many billions of people and animals seem to disagree.
  - sgift 6y ago
    We know better than evolution all the time. Else: No medicine, no operations, no science (random list of things, more can be added). Doesn't sound like a very good world to me.
    - remarkEon 6y ago
      No we don’t. All of these thing you mention are simply attempts to attenuate evolution, not conquer it. Moreover, all of the things you mention are a new feature set developed from evidence given to us by evolution.
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        Evolution is already conquered. Done. Defeated. We've left it behind when we invented language and writing. About the only area where biological evolution is relevant now is pathogens, because these evolve on timescales comparable to technological development of humans.
        remarkEon 6y ago
        The arrogance in this response is palpable. Humans managed to create a means to communicate with each other. End of evolution right there. We figured out germ theory and then vaccines. The DEATH of human evolution. We have the Internet now so that must mean human evolution just stops, because integrated circuits or something. We look back on proto-humans, who had many tools, with the same arrogance. There’s no reason our species won’t evolve further to look back on the “internet” and laugh. Timescales, huh.
        TeMPOraL 6y ago
        Yup, it's all about timescales. Fact: in large animals like humans, with long lifespans and low reproduction rates, evolution takes thousands of years to fixate any change in the population. That's about the time human civilization existed. In those few thousand years, we went from primitive tools to germ theory, vaccines, rocketry, etc. (and most of interesting developments happened in the last few hundred years; we're riding an exponent here). Evolution for humans just doesn't matter, because at this point, we're doing meaningful changes to ourselves and our environment at a rate faster than it takes for a human to reach reproductive age. We didn't wait for evolution to adapt us to colder climate, fix our eyesight or change melanin levels; we just developed clothes, glasses and sunscreen - which also made these features not influenceable by natural selection pressures. And whatever mutation happens that doesn't kill a person, we work around it socially or technologically - which means its impact on reproductive fitness is usually close to zero. Biological evolution is no longer the force driving the shape of our species. There is an evolution of humans happening, but it's social and technological, not biological.
  - Quekid5 6y ago
    That's not at all what I'm suggesting. My point is merely that you cannot derive an ought from an is. (I suspect most of us agree about what is, but we probably agree a lot less about what ought to be.) I'm suggesting that it might be wise to try to keep our baser instincts at bay -- as well as we can, at least. Sure, we'll fail from time to time (or often even), but that doesn't mean we should give up that struggle.
- mklarmann 6y ago
  I feel a tribal connection with all the people that do good.
- ScottBurson 6y ago
  I feel a tribal connection with all the other people in this thread who agree with you.
machinelabo 6y ago
Definitely. Sports in a benign way and through wars in a catastrophic way. The internet has created other strongly bonded echo-chambers. Elon Musk lovers/haters for example.

dis-sys 6y ago

> We're tiny blobs of muttering meat in the universe. Temporarily here. can not agree more on this