8 ms·

Recently I started trying something new for our interviews. I start with a phone interview that is more about discussing their background, expertise, what they

Recently I started trying something new for our interviews. I start with a phone interview that is more about discussing their background, expertise, what they need to feel productive, and explain the role. If I think they’d be a good culture and expertise fit, I send them something like this (I’ve made a few): https://gist.github.com/tywalch/cf60e4c942ab6a80e481f4ba6754e626 https://gist.github.com/tywalch/cf60e4c942ab6a80e481f4ba6754.... It’s a small “api service” that represents a POC with some bugs and bad practices. I tell them to look over it, write down notes on how to make it production ready, setup a time to discuss their thoughts in a second call. No code writing necessary. It ends up being an excellent Rorschach test where folks can really show/express their unique skill sets and experience. I ultimately let them drive the conversation and it gives me great insights into what experiences have shaped their career and what it might be like to collaborate with them. Best of all it does resemble what some of their day to day might look like better than hand crafting some tree algorithm.

alltakendamned 6y ago
Damn that SQL injection will get you owned in 3 seconds or less :D
- aurbano 6y ago
  It really really sucks that it’s almost 2021 and we still have to try to sneak in a little SQL injection just to see if they know about it... Ffs is that never going to go away?
  - jolux 6y ago
    the only way it could possibly go away for good is database libraries that don’t support dynamic SQL. But you almost always need the flexibility at some point, and SQL is so powerful that taking it off the table is hard to justify.
    - alltakendamned 6y ago
      just use prepared statements instead of string concantenation to build your SQL statements.
      - SamuelAdams 6y ago
        Yes, there's lots of ways to fix SQL injection. I'm more surprised that after knowing about this vulnerability for 20+ years, its STILL lost on many developers. You and I pick up on it immediately, but there's (apparently) a lot of developers who think the code is "good enough, works for me" and ship it to production. So it needs to be asked for in interviews, and if you find it and discuss it you're apparently one of the "better" programmers. The bar for being a passable programmer is literally on the floor.
      - jolux 6y ago
        Absolutely, but most database libraries still allow concatenation.
svrb 6y ago
TL;DR: you're testing for likability and other emotional response.
- MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
  You’re saying that as if social skills were worthless, and likability unimportant for working together. I wonder where that sentiment comes from.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    "Culture fit" is one of those things that seems to be used as a proxy for traits that are illegal to take into consideration during the hiring process.
    - asdff 6y ago
      At its worst case, sure. But it also means, can I work with this person? Can we be productive together? Are they picking up what I and the rest of the team will be throwing down? Everyone has had to do a terrible group project in school where the group dynamic was just not there and the whole thing suffered, despite all the smarts being at the table. This is to attempt to avoid that exact same thing from happening, because often you just don't have the time to flub around telling someone how to document something properly for the 10th time.
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      Also a proxy for not wanting to build a team where people don't like each other. Culture fit isn't a bad thing unless you take it too far.
      - Rebelgecko 6y ago
        It's OK to challenge people's beliefs. Make a misogynist work with women on their team. Don't enable those sorts of attitudes
  - ducttapecrown 6y ago
ornornor 6y ago
That’s cool, I’d actually enjoy getting this instead of being asked to build yet another production ready app in “two hours but you can spend more if you like hint hint and then we might even get back to you”
biddit 6y ago
I had an interview a few years ago where they literally hauled out some of their legacy code (unstructured PHP written in the PHP 4 era), and asked me to make a list of what I'd do to clean it up and make it more manageable. No coding involved. It was a very pleasant experience from this side too and allowed me to express all of my domain knowledge without making a significant investment. This is such a great approach IMO.

alltakendamned 6y ago

Damn that SQL injection will get you owned in 3 seconds or less :D

aurbano 6y ago
It really really sucks that it’s almost 2021 and we still have to try to sneak in a little SQL injection just to see if they know about it... Ffs is that never going to go away?
- jolux 6y ago
  the only way it could possibly go away for good is database libraries that don’t support dynamic SQL. But you almost always need the flexibility at some point, and SQL is so powerful that taking it off the table is hard to justify.
  - alltakendamned 6y ago
    just use prepared statements instead of string concantenation to build your SQL statements.
    - SamuelAdams 6y ago
      Yes, there's lots of ways to fix SQL injection. I'm more surprised that after knowing about this vulnerability for 20+ years, its STILL lost on many developers. You and I pick up on it immediately, but there's (apparently) a lot of developers who think the code is "good enough, works for me" and ship it to production. So it needs to be asked for in interviews, and if you find it and discuss it you're apparently one of the "better" programmers. The bar for being a passable programmer is literally on the floor.
    - jolux 6y ago
      Absolutely, but most database libraries still allow concatenation.

svrb 6y ago

TL;DR: you're testing for likability and other emotional response.

MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
You’re saying that as if social skills were worthless, and likability unimportant for working together. I wonder where that sentiment comes from.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  "Culture fit" is one of those things that seems to be used as a proxy for traits that are illegal to take into consideration during the hiring process.
  - asdff 6y ago
    At its worst case, sure. But it also means, can I work with this person? Can we be productive together? Are they picking up what I and the rest of the team will be throwing down? Everyone has had to do a terrible group project in school where the group dynamic was just not there and the whole thing suffered, despite all the smarts being at the table. This is to attempt to avoid that exact same thing from happening, because often you just don't have the time to flub around telling someone how to document something properly for the 10th time.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    Also a proxy for not wanting to build a team where people don't like each other. Culture fit isn't a bad thing unless you take it too far.
    - Rebelgecko 6y ago
      It's OK to challenge people's beliefs. Make a misogynist work with women on their team. Don't enable those sorts of attitudes
- ducttapecrown 6y ago

ornornor 6y ago

That’s cool, I’d actually enjoy getting this instead of being asked to build yet another production ready app in “two hours but you can spend more if you like hint hint and then we might even get back to you”

biddit 6y ago

I had an interview a few years ago where they literally hauled out some of their legacy code (unstructured PHP written in the PHP 4 era), and asked me to make a list of what I'd do to clean it up and make it more manageable. No coding involved. It was a very pleasant experience from this side too and allowed me to express all of my domain knowledge without making a significant investment. This is such a great approach IMO.