6 ms·

That's not intrinsic value though. Fiat currency by definition has no intrinsic value. Fiat literally means "let it be done", i.e. it is given value by a decree

by shawnz 6y ago

That's not intrinsic value though. Fiat currency by definition has no intrinsic value. Fiat literally means "let it be done", i.e. it is given value by a decree and not because of its intrinsic value.

tylerhou 6y ago
You have to pay taxes in USD. Not being thrown in jail is value... maybe not intrinsic though. USD in paper form can also be burned for warmth, or used to write on. In coin form, it has the same intrinsic value as the metal.
- wizeman 6y ago
  I think you would agree that the intrinsic value of dollars as backed by the metal in USD coins is negligible compared to how many USD exist, because nobody has them in substantial amounts (due to being impractical). The value of the paper that the dollars are printed on is also negligible compared to the value of the bills themselves, let alone all the USD that exist (as you probably know, the vast majority of which don't actually exist as bills or coins). Besides, everything you said, including tax payment and keeping out of jail, also applies to the Venezuelan bolivar and quite a few other fiat currencies that completely crashed in value due to hyper-inflation. So I don't think those are good arguments for the USD being valuable or having substantial intrinsic value.
  - tylerhou 6y ago
    > I think you would agree that the intrinsic value of dollars as backed by the metal in USD coins is negligible compared to how many USD exist... Yes, I agree. > Besides, everything you said, including tax payment and keeping out of jail, also applies to the Venezuelan bolivar and quite a few other fiat currencies that completely crashed in value due to hyper-inflation. USD will always be valuable as long as the US government exists and taxes its citizens in USD. This means that there will always be demand for USD (again, as long as the US government exists). I don't think it's wrong to say that the US government is more stable than the other governments that print currencies that are less stable.
    - doggosphere 6y ago
      > USD will always be valuable as long as the US government exists and taxes its citizens in USD. This means that there will always be demand for USD (again, as long as the US government exists). For the USD to have value, you need technological innovation and productivity. You need to export more value than you import. Simply existing and taxing your population does not give your currency value.
- shawnz 6y ago
  Indeed the fact that you have to pay taxes in USD is not intrinsic value, that is actually what makes it fiat (That is the decree by which it is given value) However the flammability is a good example of intrinsic value
dwaltrip 6y ago
There's no such thing as "intrinsic" value. Value is determined by humans depending on the context.
- twicetwice 6y ago
  While that's true, if we take certain basic human values to be universal for the sake of discussion, it's not unreasonable to say that a loaf of bread has intrinsic value in a way that a dollar clearly does not.
  - dwaltrip 6y ago
    What’s the basis for the distinction or that choice of word? Why not just say bread is more widely valued than a the dollar? There are also many, many situations where I’d rather have dollars than bread.
    - shawnz 6y ago
      Bread isn't necessarily more widely valued than a dollar. Bread has more functional/useful value than a dollar. A dollar only has value if you can exchange it for something else
      - dwaltrip 6y ago
        It doesn't sound like you are arguing for intrinsic value, but I'm not sure. I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying. Although I think we should mention that one can write a sentence for bread that is very similar to the one you gave for dollars. Bread only has value if you are hungry and don't have other more preferable food sources.
        shawnz 6y ago
        Sure, but when you are hungry then that intrinsic value is expressed for you. But there's no situation in which cash is useful except for exchanging.

by shawnz 6y ago

tylerhou 6y ago

You have to pay taxes in USD. Not being thrown in jail is value... maybe not intrinsic though. USD in paper form can also be burned for warmth, or used to write on. In coin form, it has the same intrinsic value as the metal.

wizeman 6y ago
I think you would agree that the intrinsic value of dollars as backed by the metal in USD coins is negligible compared to how many USD exist, because nobody has them in substantial amounts (due to being impractical). The value of the paper that the dollars are printed on is also negligible compared to the value of the bills themselves, let alone all the USD that exist (as you probably know, the vast majority of which don't actually exist as bills or coins). Besides, everything you said, including tax payment and keeping out of jail, also applies to the Venezuelan bolivar and quite a few other fiat currencies that completely crashed in value due to hyper-inflation. So I don't think those are good arguments for the USD being valuable or having substantial intrinsic value.
- tylerhou 6y ago
  > I think you would agree that the intrinsic value of dollars as backed by the metal in USD coins is negligible compared to how many USD exist... Yes, I agree. > Besides, everything you said, including tax payment and keeping out of jail, also applies to the Venezuelan bolivar and quite a few other fiat currencies that completely crashed in value due to hyper-inflation. USD will always be valuable as long as the US government exists and taxes its citizens in USD. This means that there will always be demand for USD (again, as long as the US government exists). I don't think it's wrong to say that the US government is more stable than the other governments that print currencies that are less stable.
  - doggosphere 6y ago
    > USD will always be valuable as long as the US government exists and taxes its citizens in USD. This means that there will always be demand for USD (again, as long as the US government exists). For the USD to have value, you need technological innovation and productivity. You need to export more value than you import. Simply existing and taxing your population does not give your currency value.
shawnz 6y ago
Indeed the fact that you have to pay taxes in USD is not intrinsic value, that is actually what makes it fiat (That is the decree by which it is given value) However the flammability is a good example of intrinsic value

dwaltrip 6y ago

There's no such thing as "intrinsic" value. Value is determined by humans depending on the context.

twicetwice 6y ago
While that's true, if we take certain basic human values to be universal for the sake of discussion, it's not unreasonable to say that a loaf of bread has intrinsic value in a way that a dollar clearly does not.
- dwaltrip 6y ago
  What’s the basis for the distinction or that choice of word? Why not just say bread is more widely valued than a the dollar? There are also many, many situations where I’d rather have dollars than bread.
  - shawnz 6y ago
    Bread isn't necessarily more widely valued than a dollar. Bread has more functional/useful value than a dollar. A dollar only has value if you can exchange it for something else
    - dwaltrip 6y ago
      It doesn't sound like you are arguing for intrinsic value, but I'm not sure. I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying. Although I think we should mention that one can write a sentence for bread that is very similar to the one you gave for dollars. Bread only has value if you are hungry and don't have other more preferable food sources.
      - shawnz 6y ago
        Sure, but when you are hungry then that intrinsic value is expressed for you. But there's no situation in which cash is useful except for exchanging.