4 ms·

>I'm enjoying sitting on the sidelines and watching people "save" in a fiat "currency" whose value is not linked to anything intrinsic I'm pro crypto, but this

>I'm enjoying sitting on the sidelines and watching people "save" in a fiat "currency" whose value is not linked to anything intrinsic I'm pro crypto, but this is ridiculous. No intrinsic value? I can spend my dollars anywhere in the world with no input or reliance on any other entity. They might be the most valuable asset on the planet.

doggosphere 6y ago
As a means of trade, yes, they are powerful because they are widely trusted and preferred. However once you have them, you get rid of them. Good assets don't lose value over time. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1032048/value-us-dollar-since-1640/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1032048/value-us-dollar-...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kbhn 6y ago
  Good assets also don't get stolen if 51% of the network becomes compromised by a bad actor.
  - doggosphere 6y ago
    Hm? Stolen assets you say? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_Unit... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_austerity_packages https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_austerity_packages A 51% attack doesn’t let the bad actor steal someone else’s coins. It lets them reverse and double spend their own spending. They can’t directly steal coins. The flexibility of open source software gives opportunities to mitigate such an event, should it happen.
shawnz 6y ago
That's not intrinsic value though. Fiat currency by definition has no intrinsic value. Fiat literally means "let it be done", i.e. it is given value by a decree and not because of its intrinsic value.
- tylerhou 6y ago
  You have to pay taxes in USD. Not being thrown in jail is value... maybe not intrinsic though. USD in paper form can also be burned for warmth, or used to write on. In coin form, it has the same intrinsic value as the metal.
  - wizeman 6y ago
    I think you would agree that the intrinsic value of dollars as backed by the metal in USD coins is negligible compared to how many USD exist, because nobody has them in substantial amounts (due to being impractical). The value of the paper that the dollars are printed on is also negligible compared to the value of the bills themselves, let alone all the USD that exist (as you probably know, the vast majority of which don't actually exist as bills or coins). Besides, everything you said, including tax payment and keeping out of jail, also applies to the Venezuelan bolivar and quite a few other fiat currencies that completely crashed in value due to hyper-inflation. So I don't think those are good arguments for the USD being valuable or having substantial intrinsic value.
    - tylerhou 6y ago
      > I think you would agree that the intrinsic value of dollars as backed by the metal in USD coins is negligible compared to how many USD exist... Yes, I agree. > Besides, everything you said, including tax payment and keeping out of jail, also applies to the Venezuelan bolivar and quite a few other fiat currencies that completely crashed in value due to hyper-inflation. USD will always be valuable as long as the US government exists and taxes its citizens in USD. This means that there will always be demand for USD (again, as long as the US government exists). I don't think it's wrong to say that the US government is more stable than the other governments that print currencies that are less stable.

doggosphere 6y ago

As a means of trade, yes, they are powerful because they are widely trusted and preferred. However once you have them, you get rid of them. Good assets don't lose value over time. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1032048/value-us-dollar-since-1640/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1032048/value-us-dollar-...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kbhn 6y ago
Good assets also don't get stolen if 51% of the network becomes compromised by a bad actor.
- doggosphere 6y ago
  Hm? Stolen assets you say? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_Unit... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_austerity_packages https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_austerity_packages A 51% attack doesn’t let the bad actor steal someone else’s coins. It lets them reverse and double spend their own spending. They can’t directly steal coins. The flexibility of open source software gives opportunities to mitigate such an event, should it happen.

shawnz 6y ago

That's not intrinsic value though. Fiat currency by definition has no intrinsic value. Fiat literally means "let it be done", i.e. it is given value by a decree and not because of its intrinsic value.

tylerhou 6y ago
You have to pay taxes in USD. Not being thrown in jail is value... maybe not intrinsic though. USD in paper form can also be burned for warmth, or used to write on. In coin form, it has the same intrinsic value as the metal.
- wizeman 6y ago
  I think you would agree that the intrinsic value of dollars as backed by the metal in USD coins is negligible compared to how many USD exist, because nobody has them in substantial amounts (due to being impractical). The value of the paper that the dollars are printed on is also negligible compared to the value of the bills themselves, let alone all the USD that exist (as you probably know, the vast majority of which don't actually exist as bills or coins). Besides, everything you said, including tax payment and keeping out of jail, also applies to the Venezuelan bolivar and quite a few other fiat currencies that completely crashed in value due to hyper-inflation. So I don't think those are good arguments for the USD being valuable or having substantial intrinsic value.
  - tylerhou 6y ago
    > I think you would agree that the intrinsic value of dollars as backed by the metal in USD coins is negligible compared to how many USD exist... Yes, I agree. > Besides, everything you said, including tax payment and keeping out of jail, also applies to the Venezuelan bolivar and quite a few other fiat currencies that completely crashed in value due to hyper-inflation. USD will always be valuable as long as the US government exists and taxes its citizens in USD. This means that there will always be demand for USD (again, as long as the US government exists). I don't think it's wrong to say that the US government is more stable than the other governments that print currencies that are less stable.