5 ms·

Did Intel similarly threaten Apple? If not, why not? Even if they didn't know for sure exactly what Apple was up to with the M1, they surely could have speculat

Did Intel similarly threaten Apple? If not, why not? Even if they didn't know for sure exactly what Apple was up to with the M1, they surely could have speculated, as so many others did.

shaggyfrog 6y ago
The threat was regarding emulation. Rosetta 2 isn't emulation, it's translation.
- erik 6y ago
  Rosetta 2 includes both ahead-of-time translation and run-time emulation. It can run x64 jit software for example.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    The jit is run-time translation still - not run-time emulation.
    - dtech 6y ago
      Can you provide a definition that specifies the difference? The end result is identical: being able to run software compiled for foreign ISA.
      - coldtea 6y ago
        It doesn't emulate a whole CPU and has the simulated CPU run the code. It translates instructions directly to the different ISA.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      That is literally how performant emulators work.
      - coldtea 6y ago
        At that level though, emulation/translation/simulation is blurred.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        Somewhat, they're really not exclusive. You could say Rosetta is an x86 emulator that uses AOT binary translation and JIT compilation.
- buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
  So why does Microsoft go the translation route instead of emulation?
  - CalChris 6y ago
    Rosetta 2 is running on an Apple chip which they’ve designed to have an X86 strong memory model mode. Microsoft has to run on off the shelf ARMv8 chips.
  - nanagojo 6y ago
    They don't make their chips like Apple.
leoc 6y ago
FWIW, the twentieth anniversary of the publication of the x86-64 specification was apparently August of this year (https://web.archive.org/web/20120308025559/http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/Press_Release_715.aspx https://web.archive.org/web/20120308025559/http://www.amd.co... , via WP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#History ), while MS announced x86-64 emulation support for ARM W10 at the end of September https://uk.pcmag.com/migrated-3765-windows-10/128922/microsoft-to-bring-64-bit-x86-windows-apps-to-arm-powered-pcs-with-new-emulator https://uk.pcmag.com/migrated-3765-windows-10/128922/microso... https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2020/09/30/now-more-essential-than-ever-the-role-of-the-windows-pc-has-changed/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2020/09/30/now-m... .
xxpor 6y ago
Doesn't the force behind that threat depend heavily on the outcome of Oracle v Google?

Did Intel similarly threaten Apple? If not, why not? Even if they didn't know for sure exactly what Apple was up to with the M1, they surely could have speculated, as so many others did.

shaggyfrog 6y ago

The threat was regarding emulation. Rosetta 2 isn't emulation, it's translation.

erik 6y ago
Rosetta 2 includes both ahead-of-time translation and run-time emulation. It can run x64 jit software for example.
- coldtea 6y ago
  The jit is run-time translation still - not run-time emulation.
  - dtech 6y ago
    Can you provide a definition that specifies the difference? The end result is identical: being able to run software compiled for foreign ISA.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      It doesn't emulate a whole CPU and has the simulated CPU run the code. It translates instructions directly to the different ISA.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    That is literally how performant emulators work.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      At that level though, emulation/translation/simulation is blurred.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        Somewhat, they're really not exclusive. You could say Rosetta is an x86 emulator that uses AOT binary translation and JIT compilation.
buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
So why does Microsoft go the translation route instead of emulation?
- CalChris 6y ago
  Rosetta 2 is running on an Apple chip which they’ve designed to have an X86 strong memory model mode. Microsoft has to run on off the shelf ARMv8 chips.
- nanagojo 6y ago
  They don't make their chips like Apple.

leoc 6y ago

FWIW, the twentieth anniversary of the publication of the x86-64 specification was apparently August of this year (https://web.archive.org/web/20120308025559/http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/Press_Release_715.aspx https://web.archive.org/web/20120308025559/http://www.amd.co... , via WP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#History ), while MS announced x86-64 emulation support for ARM W10 at the end of September https://uk.pcmag.com/migrated-3765-windows-10/128922/microsoft-to-bring-64-bit-x86-windows-apps-to-arm-powered-pcs-with-new-emulator https://uk.pcmag.com/migrated-3765-windows-10/128922/microso... https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2020/09/30/now-more-essential-than-ever-the-role-of-the-windows-pc-has-changed/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2020/09/30/now-m... .

xxpor 6y ago

Doesn't the force behind that threat depend heavily on the outcome of Oracle v Google?