4 ms·

> Alcohol wrecks plenty of people's lives for sure even today, and yet... What alcohol does have is widespread social understanding, it's deep in our culture.

by iguy 6y ago

> Alcohol wrecks plenty of people's lives for sure even today, and yet... What alcohol does have is widespread social understanding, it's deep in our culture. Your grandmother had a pretty decent idea of how this could go wrong, and of what non-dangerous use looks like. So does your priest. And your mother in law. And Shakespeare. Not a perfect defence mechanism, obviously, but not nothing. Whereas for cocaine, almost nobody has a clue.

jrochkind1 6y ago
And yet personally (in the USA) I know more people who's lives have been wrecked by alcohol than by cocaine. Of course, now it seems I'm arguing for prohibition after all, maybe that's because alcohol is legal, is that why more people get into trouble with it? My sense is that criminalization doesn't have much role in it though. I think cultural factors, as you mention, are more powerful. And the number of people whose lives are wrecked by the criminal justice system because of drug prohibition is really significant.
- iguy 6y ago
  This seems a little like arguing that I know several people who died in car accidents, and none in spaceships. One of these is much more dangerous, but almost everyone I know drives places, and has a drink or two, every week. Maybe that's too strong, I'm not really sure how much more dangerous cocaine is. But even if it were somehow comparable, maybe we should be scared by what the arrival of alcohol did to peoples who hadn't had much of it -- this was true of many native american groups, IIRC. And many others worldwide.
Broken_Hippo 6y ago
I'm gonna guess that a fair amount of people has a clue what it looks like, but since it is illegal, few folks are gonna talk about it at family dinners. Lots of people can guess what non-dangerous cocaine use looks like, though: I mean, is once a month dangerous use if you do a reasonable amount when you do it, assuming you are otherwise healthy? Can you not warn folks that you might find yourself wanting more cocaine after doing a bit of cocaine and offer tips for dealing with that? Are there ways to make cocaine use safer? Yes, of course! Legalisation will help greatly (you'll know exactly what you are getting and we can standardize strength like we've done with alcohol). We can also educate folks in a variety of ways. Offer free help to folks that do find themselves addicted. I'm going to guess folks wrote about it more indepth before it became illegal as well.

by iguy 6y ago

jrochkind1 6y ago

And yet personally (in the USA) I know more people who's lives have been wrecked by alcohol than by cocaine. Of course, now it seems I'm arguing for prohibition after all, maybe that's because alcohol is legal, is that why more people get into trouble with it? My sense is that criminalization doesn't have much role in it though. I think cultural factors, as you mention, are more powerful. And the number of people whose lives are wrecked by the criminal justice system because of drug prohibition is really significant.

iguy 6y ago
This seems a little like arguing that I know several people who died in car accidents, and none in spaceships. One of these is much more dangerous, but almost everyone I know drives places, and has a drink or two, every week. Maybe that's too strong, I'm not really sure how much more dangerous cocaine is. But even if it were somehow comparable, maybe we should be scared by what the arrival of alcohol did to peoples who hadn't had much of it -- this was true of many native american groups, IIRC. And many others worldwide.

Broken_Hippo 6y ago

I'm gonna guess that a fair amount of people has a clue what it looks like, but since it is illegal, few folks are gonna talk about it at family dinners. Lots of people can guess what non-dangerous cocaine use looks like, though: I mean, is once a month dangerous use if you do a reasonable amount when you do it, assuming you are otherwise healthy? Can you not warn folks that you might find yourself wanting more cocaine after doing a bit of cocaine and offer tips for dealing with that? Are there ways to make cocaine use safer? Yes, of course! Legalisation will help greatly (you'll know exactly what you are getting and we can standardize strength like we've done with alcohol). We can also educate folks in a variety of ways. Offer free help to folks that do find themselves addicted. I'm going to guess folks wrote about it more indepth before it became illegal as well.