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Like Alcohol? I haven't looked at the stats but I'm assuming alcohol has way more addiction than any other drug. I think the original posters point was that p

Like Alcohol? I haven't looked at the stats but I'm assuming alcohol has way more addiction than any other drug. I think the original posters point was that people are doing the drugs anyway, making it illegal may put a slight dent in usage, but it doesn't stop people from doing the drugs. And the number of lives ruined, the cartels, the massive police required, and the side effects from the war of drugs are much worse than if all drugs were decriminalized. The cartels are destabilizing entire governments in Latin America murdering police and journalists making entire regions inaccessible. It's real bad.

anonfornoreason 6y ago
I have friends who are alcoholics and definitely have negative impacts in both actions and health, but it's more of a slow boil. I've had friends that went down a very very fast spiral (1-2 years from normal to streets) when using hard drugs. Alcohol is harmful, but cocaine/meth/opiates are at least an order of magnitude worse.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  So your friends did the hard drugs anyway even though they were illegal? I think you kind of support the case of why not make them legal.
  - anonfornoreason 6y ago
    Sorry, not intending to have my reply read as a support one way or another, just wanted to make sure to draw the distinction between alcohol and hard drug use. I see some people advocating for complete legalization claiming that alcohol use has terrible effects and is legal, so other drugs should be as well. I can only imagine those people haven't watched what a year of meth can do to a person, or that cocaine use is strongly correlated to other hard drug use as well, etc.
    - samatman 6y ago
      I've watched what ten years of meth can do to a person, it's terrible, he graduated college, built and sold his first company, now he's independently wealthy, bought a house, and is starting a second company. And I don't mean Adderall I mean meth, he has a Desoxyn prescription and it's pure meth, not the most common prescription for ADHD but perhaps it should be. So do you think legalizing amphetamines would improve outcomes or not? I know which side of the fence I'm on.
      - anonfornoreason 6y ago
        Speaking to the choir - I have had prescriptions to both adderall and ritalin (swap back and forth every year or two) for the last 15 years, definitely helped me start a business while going to college, crank on that business insane hours for the first 7 years. Doesn't mean I think meth, opiates, etc legalization aren't without consequences, or that they can be honestly compared to alcohol. Personally, I go back and forth on legalization, and recently voted for decriminalization of all drugs in my state. Might as well make law reflect practice.
  - melenaboija 6y ago
    I don't see how is it related, I guess the point is that the situation would exist being alcohol legal or illegal (hard to prove). To me the thing is trying to imagine alcohol industry and alcoholics dealing with it if it was illegal.
- TuringNYC 6y ago
  Without arguing about what is worse, i think it is important to look at the stats of Alcohol damage in the US for example: https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/impaired_driving/im https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/impaired_driving/im... In 2016, 10,497 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for 28% of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1 Of the 1,233 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2016, 214 (17%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.1 The victims can be total strangers, on the road for example. Also, this above citation is just regarding traffic accidents, there are of course other impacts.
  - est31 6y ago
    Alcohol consumption is legal though. If you made hard drugs legal as well, likely consumption would increase, and thus the ill effects they cause.
    - DanBC 6y ago
      In places like Portugal consumption decreased.
  - varjag 6y ago
    Alcohol is entirely legal though and is in ubiquitous use. Not sure it's a good argument for hard drugs legalization.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Alcohol is a hard drug. It's deceptive because it's legal but it's killed more people than any other drug. It's ruined more lives than any other drug. It has one of the worst withdrawals of any drug.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    >It has one of the worst withdrawals of any drug. They don't chain up copper on job-sites because alcoholics are looking for something to steal and sell for a fix.
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
      They absolutely do. Homeless people people spend money on alcohol instead of food.
    - DanBC 6y ago
      I don't understand your comment. Withdrawal from alcohol can cause fits and even death. It's severe. That's why, during covid lockdowns, stores selling alcohol were often allowed to remain open. Acquisitive crime has nothing to do with how dangerous withdrawal is. It's mostly about how expensive the drug is and how much is needed. Alcohol is dirt cheap.
      - GauntletWizard 6y ago
        Water is a dangerous drug. Sudden withdrawal of water can result in death with 3 days. Over the years, millions of people have died of withdrawal effects. Wars have been fought over it. It’s dirt cheap on the street - You could regularly find sellers hawking it for a dollar outside of sports events. Ban water.
        samatman 6y ago
        Please find somewhere else to make Reddit-tier trolling comments, thank you.
        6y ago
vmchale 6y ago
It's more comparable to cannabis, maybe worse though? Don't think it's on the same level as cocaine.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
Alcohol is very significantly less addictive and less harmful than "hard drugs".
axlee 6y ago
Alcohol is a very hard, very dangerous drug indeed. And with it being legal, it's a good example of what over-availability of drugs can cause. If cocaine was made legal, sold and marketed over the counter as alcohol and now weed are, I'm convinced that the ripple effects on society would be absolutely disastrous in terms of public health. Looking at the opioid crisis for example, we can definitely see that a high availability of a substance, backed by a legal capitalist drive of selling stronly said substances, is not something that do good for society in the long run. We're talking about more than half a million dead over the past 20 years, with many more millions whose lives are ruined. And we're talking about a medically-sanctioned effort, with prescriptions and regulations. If opioids were marketed and sold as alcohol, legal weed or cigarettes are, can you imagine the disaster? I think there are a lot more good people to lose to addiction than there are good people to lose to the cartels and the "war on drugs". It's a tough choice to make as a society.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  You make some good points but I think overall... the war on drugs does way more damage to the world.

anonfornoreason 6y ago

I have friends who are alcoholics and definitely have negative impacts in both actions and health, but it's more of a slow boil. I've had friends that went down a very very fast spiral (1-2 years from normal to streets) when using hard drugs. Alcohol is harmful, but cocaine/meth/opiates are at least an order of magnitude worse.

nickthemagicman 6y ago
So your friends did the hard drugs anyway even though they were illegal? I think you kind of support the case of why not make them legal.
- anonfornoreason 6y ago
  Sorry, not intending to have my reply read as a support one way or another, just wanted to make sure to draw the distinction between alcohol and hard drug use. I see some people advocating for complete legalization claiming that alcohol use has terrible effects and is legal, so other drugs should be as well. I can only imagine those people haven't watched what a year of meth can do to a person, or that cocaine use is strongly correlated to other hard drug use as well, etc.
  - samatman 6y ago
    I've watched what ten years of meth can do to a person, it's terrible, he graduated college, built and sold his first company, now he's independently wealthy, bought a house, and is starting a second company. And I don't mean Adderall I mean meth, he has a Desoxyn prescription and it's pure meth, not the most common prescription for ADHD but perhaps it should be. So do you think legalizing amphetamines would improve outcomes or not? I know which side of the fence I'm on.
    - anonfornoreason 6y ago
      Speaking to the choir - I have had prescriptions to both adderall and ritalin (swap back and forth every year or two) for the last 15 years, definitely helped me start a business while going to college, crank on that business insane hours for the first 7 years. Doesn't mean I think meth, opiates, etc legalization aren't without consequences, or that they can be honestly compared to alcohol. Personally, I go back and forth on legalization, and recently voted for decriminalization of all drugs in my state. Might as well make law reflect practice.
- melenaboija 6y ago
  I don't see how is it related, I guess the point is that the situation would exist being alcohol legal or illegal (hard to prove). To me the thing is trying to imagine alcohol industry and alcoholics dealing with it if it was illegal.
TuringNYC 6y ago
Without arguing about what is worse, i think it is important to look at the stats of Alcohol damage in the US for example: https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/impaired_driving/im https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/impaired_driving/im... In 2016, 10,497 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for 28% of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1 Of the 1,233 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2016, 214 (17%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.1 The victims can be total strangers, on the road for example. Also, this above citation is just regarding traffic accidents, there are of course other impacts.
- est31 6y ago
  Alcohol consumption is legal though. If you made hard drugs legal as well, likely consumption would increase, and thus the ill effects they cause.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    In places like Portugal consumption decreased.
- varjag 6y ago
  Alcohol is entirely legal though and is in ubiquitous use. Not sure it's a good argument for hard drugs legalization.
nickthemagicman 6y ago
Alcohol is a hard drug. It's deceptive because it's legal but it's killed more people than any other drug. It's ruined more lives than any other drug. It has one of the worst withdrawals of any drug.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >It has one of the worst withdrawals of any drug. They don't chain up copper on job-sites because alcoholics are looking for something to steal and sell for a fix.
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    They absolutely do. Homeless people people spend money on alcohol instead of food.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    I don't understand your comment. Withdrawal from alcohol can cause fits and even death. It's severe. That's why, during covid lockdowns, stores selling alcohol were often allowed to remain open. Acquisitive crime has nothing to do with how dangerous withdrawal is. It's mostly about how expensive the drug is and how much is needed. Alcohol is dirt cheap.
    - GauntletWizard 6y ago
      Water is a dangerous drug. Sudden withdrawal of water can result in death with 3 days. Over the years, millions of people have died of withdrawal effects. Wars have been fought over it. It’s dirt cheap on the street - You could regularly find sellers hawking it for a dollar outside of sports events. Ban water.
      - samatman 6y ago
        Please find somewhere else to make Reddit-tier trolling comments, thank you.
      - 6y ago

vmchale 6y ago

It's more comparable to cannabis, maybe worse though? Don't think it's on the same level as cocaine.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

SomeoneFromCA 6y ago

Alcohol is very significantly less addictive and less harmful than "hard drugs".

axlee 6y ago

Alcohol is a very hard, very dangerous drug indeed. And with it being legal, it's a good example of what over-availability of drugs can cause. If cocaine was made legal, sold and marketed over the counter as alcohol and now weed are, I'm convinced that the ripple effects on society would be absolutely disastrous in terms of public health. Looking at the opioid crisis for example, we can definitely see that a high availability of a substance, backed by a legal capitalist drive of selling stronly said substances, is not something that do good for society in the long run. We're talking about more than half a million dead over the past 20 years, with many more millions whose lives are ruined. And we're talking about a medically-sanctioned effort, with prescriptions and regulations. If opioids were marketed and sold as alcohol, legal weed or cigarettes are, can you imagine the disaster? I think there are a lot more good people to lose to addiction than there are good people to lose to the cartels and the "war on drugs". It's a tough choice to make as a society.

nickthemagicman 6y ago
You make some good points but I think overall... the war on drugs does way more damage to the world.