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If you give your employer an ultimatum with the fallback choice being "... Or else I resign" and they decline, it seems obviously logical and reasonable that yo

If you give your employer an ultimatum with the fallback choice being "... Or else I resign" and they decline, it seems obviously logical and reasonable that your resignation has been submitted. This was the case for her. She admits to doing as much in her tweets, but then chooses to characterize the outcome as a surprise firing.

whimsicalism 6y ago
> it seems obviously logical and reasonable that your resignation has been submitted In the United States, there is a huge difference legally between being fired and resigning. You don't get to declare someone else's "resignation" for them. Maybe that's the logical thing, but lots of people also bluff and fail.
- xibalba 6y ago
  > You don't get to declare someone else's "resignation" for them I think you are arguing that this is more straightforward than it really is. If we suppose (in absence of her actual email) that she declared "...make x, y, and z happen or I resign", that certainly reads as a (conditional) offer of resignation that can be accepted by the other party. All of this is likely to end up in court and we'll get a decision on whether it was a resignation or firing.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    She shared what she says is Google's response.[1] "However, we believe the end of your employment should happen faster than your email reflects because certain aspects of the email you sent last night to non-management employees in the brain group reflect behavior that is inconsistent with the expectations of a Google manager." That isn't accepting previously offered conditions. I agree what it means legally will probably end up in court. [1] https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364735446331392 https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364735446331392
newacct583 6y ago
Well, if you want to get technical with implications and waive normal process, she did not actually say "Or else I resign". I don't see that that argument holds. From a legal perspective, she was quite clearly terminated. There was no point at which she "worked on a last date" (her exact words) with her management, they just sent her home. Now, that said, except for her unemployment eligibility, there's not a lot of legal meaning to "terminated". A later law suit isn't going to be bound by definitions like this.
- xibalba 6y ago
  > ...she did not actually say "Or else I resign". She did not post the actual email to twitter or elsewhere (nor did she attempt to effectively summarize, oddly). Were you a recipient? If so, please do share (if you're able to legally). Side note: she is being strangely cryptic about the contents of the email in her tweets.
  - thisismyswamp 6y ago
    Thank you, so happy to see reasonable people here. The crowd jumping into defending her on twitter makes me sad for humanity.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    She shared what she says is Google's response. She also said she would share her email except her account was cut off. Not trying to paraphrase it when lawyers are about to be involved isn't weird.
    - xibalba 6y ago
      It is weird when you are making public accusations against specific individuals and alluding to still hidden conversations. In other words, it sure looks like she is cherry picking which facts get sunlight and which remain hidden in order to bolster her PR efforts. And then really strains credulity by characterizing her termination as a firing. I am referring, specifically, to the as yet private email exchange between Timnit, Megan(?), and possibly others wherein Timnit offers an ultimatum which Google then declines.
newen 6y ago
No, you have to submit an official letter of resignation. Just threatening resignation does not mean you are actually resigning.
- xibalba 6y ago
  If I write my employer an email that says "do x, y, and z or I resign", that is pretty obviously a resignation if x,y, and/or z are refused. In fact, there is no law that states resignation must be submitted in writing (though a contract can stipulate that requirement). I can walk into my boss' office and resign verbally with immediate effect. California is an "at will" state. That said, I would be happy to read the source you're citing with respect to the employment law relating to resignation if it contradicts my claims.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    > California is an "at will" state. Totally irrelevant to whether this was a resignation. Your boss can't "resign" you for any reason whatsoever, that is not what "at will" means.

whimsicalism 6y ago

> it seems obviously logical and reasonable that your resignation has been submitted In the United States, there is a huge difference legally between being fired and resigning. You don't get to declare someone else's "resignation" for them. Maybe that's the logical thing, but lots of people also bluff and fail.

xibalba 6y ago
> You don't get to declare someone else's "resignation" for them I think you are arguing that this is more straightforward than it really is. If we suppose (in absence of her actual email) that she declared "...make x, y, and z happen or I resign", that certainly reads as a (conditional) offer of resignation that can be accepted by the other party. All of this is likely to end up in court and we'll get a decision on whether it was a resignation or firing.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  She shared what she says is Google's response.[1] "However, we believe the end of your employment should happen faster than your email reflects because certain aspects of the email you sent last night to non-management employees in the brain group reflect behavior that is inconsistent with the expectations of a Google manager." That isn't accepting previously offered conditions. I agree what it means legally will probably end up in court. [1] https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364735446331392 https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364735446331392

newacct583 6y ago

Well, if you want to get technical with implications and waive normal process, she did not actually say "Or else I resign". I don't see that that argument holds. From a legal perspective, she was quite clearly terminated. There was no point at which she "worked on a last date" (her exact words) with her management, they just sent her home. Now, that said, except for her unemployment eligibility, there's not a lot of legal meaning to "terminated". A later law suit isn't going to be bound by definitions like this.

xibalba 6y ago
> ...she did not actually say "Or else I resign". She did not post the actual email to twitter or elsewhere (nor did she attempt to effectively summarize, oddly). Were you a recipient? If so, please do share (if you're able to legally). Side note: she is being strangely cryptic about the contents of the email in her tweets.
- thisismyswamp 6y ago
  Thank you, so happy to see reasonable people here. The crowd jumping into defending her on twitter makes me sad for humanity.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  She shared what she says is Google's response. She also said she would share her email except her account was cut off. Not trying to paraphrase it when lawyers are about to be involved isn't weird.
  - xibalba 6y ago
    It is weird when you are making public accusations against specific individuals and alluding to still hidden conversations. In other words, it sure looks like she is cherry picking which facts get sunlight and which remain hidden in order to bolster her PR efforts. And then really strains credulity by characterizing her termination as a firing. I am referring, specifically, to the as yet private email exchange between Timnit, Megan(?), and possibly others wherein Timnit offers an ultimatum which Google then declines.

newen 6y ago

No, you have to submit an official letter of resignation. Just threatening resignation does not mean you are actually resigning.

xibalba 6y ago
If I write my employer an email that says "do x, y, and z or I resign", that is pretty obviously a resignation if x,y, and/or z are refused. In fact, there is no law that states resignation must be submitted in writing (though a contract can stipulate that requirement). I can walk into my boss' office and resign verbally with immediate effect. California is an "at will" state. That said, I would be happy to read the source you're citing with respect to the employment law relating to resignation if it contradicts my claims.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  > California is an "at will" state. Totally irrelevant to whether this was a resignation. Your boss can't "resign" you for any reason whatsoever, that is not what "at will" means.