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Lol I never whined about not getting a mythical Linux phone. I don't even want one particularly. My point was that your claim to "just not buy it" doesn't work

Lol I never whined about not getting a mythical Linux phone. I don't even want one particularly. My point was that your claim to "just not buy it" doesn't work when its an essential item in modern society like food, water, housing, or a computer. Its easy to sit here from your armchair and say "well if dumb consumers hadn't bought smartphones like this then we wouldn't have them so they shouldn't complain." But you, of course, have a smartphone from one of these manufacturers because like everyone else you realized you basically need one these days if you work or travel. We created rules that favor tech mega corps and now they dominate the industry. So your "solution" isn't really a solution. You say people should have made some amazingly insightful decision to boycott all smartphones fifteen years ago but since they didn't we are stuck with the brands we have and its the consumers' fault...

themacguffinman 6y ago
It does work, you just don't like the results. Most consumers have gotten exactly what they wanted. I never said everyone should have boycotted all smartphones, I said that if consumers didn't like the smartphones we have they wouldn't have bought them. They practiced "just don't buy it" for all the other dead tech options that no longer exist today. Consumers clearly don't believe that there is a problem that needs a "solution". Let me be clear: it's your problem to deal with as a minority consumer who apparently doesn't like anything most other consumers like. The tech world we live in today is the world that most consumers want and are happy with. You are stuck with the brands we have, the rest of the consumer market have bought the smartphones that they've happily, willingly and repeatedly chosen. Whatever you may think of the tech industry, it very closely reflects what most consumers want. If you want something no one else wants, make it or evangelize, asking the government to forcibly change outcomes is awful.
- mrgordon 6y ago
  Nobody wants a phone that doesn't allow them to add a third party app. They tolerate it due to lack of choice because the device still provides exceptional utility. Why is it so hard to understand? I like my iPhone. I worked at Apple. I still recognize its limitations. I'm not going to go without a phone to make a point to a $2 trillion company.
  - themacguffinman 6y ago
    Because people do want a phone that doesn't allow them to add a third party app? A lot of people want Apple's walled garden to effectively make their choices for them and stop them from installing malicious garbage. They don't want to care or be conscious of the security decisions that users of more open platforms have to make. I'm not saying I like what Apple does, but I do recognize that the majority of consumers want the sort of locked down experience that Apple provides. I don't expect you to make a point to a trillion dollar company, I expect you to recognize that Apple became a trillion dollar company because consumers really want what they're making, as locked down as it is.
    - mrgordon 6y ago
      I've bought tons of iPhones. You can imply that I want a walled garden. But I don't and I've never met anyone who claimed they did. Its an Apple marketing point. Its not why people buy iPhones.
      - themacguffinman 6y ago
        I can believe you've never met them, but there they are. And they don't outright say they "like walled gardens" or something like that, they just love everything about the walled garden experience the iPhone provides them. You can even spot some of them in this thread, they want Apple to decide how much privacy they have, they want Apple to control and vet every app they install, they want Apple to limit what other software can do on their devices in ways that you can't limit in open platforms. And it only matters when it's backed by a purchasing decision. Someone can swear up and down that they hate walled gardens a lot but words mean nothing; if they turn around and purchase an iPhone over the plenty of open alternatives, it only signals that either they don't know what a walled garden is or they care about other stuff far more. Actually paying money for something cuts through all the bullshit consumers say to their friends or the internet about what they really want and what their priorities are. Markets don't give each individual consumer precisely what they want, they give large groups of consumers what they want weighted by consumer priorities. In that way, most consumers get what they really want. Obviously that means some consumers don't get what they want and perhaps that's you, I don't always get what I want either. But sorry, if most consumers really wanted a device without a walled garden, they wouldn't have willingly and repetitively bought iPhones over more open devices. If there were a large consumer group of people that really want a good device without a walled garden and are willing back up their desires by paying for one, businesses will be aching to take their money. In fact, there already are many open alternatives that serve these people well. According to you your iPhone has issues even though you own one, but evidently these issues are so minor that you won't even give alternatives your money to avoid them. "But I really don't like it" is worth as much as it cost to say that, which is absolutely nothing.

themacguffinman 6y ago

It does work, you just don't like the results. Most consumers have gotten exactly what they wanted. I never said everyone should have boycotted all smartphones, I said that if consumers didn't like the smartphones we have they wouldn't have bought them. They practiced "just don't buy it" for all the other dead tech options that no longer exist today. Consumers clearly don't believe that there is a problem that needs a "solution". Let me be clear: it's your problem to deal with as a minority consumer who apparently doesn't like anything most other consumers like. The tech world we live in today is the world that most consumers want and are happy with. You are stuck with the brands we have, the rest of the consumer market have bought the smartphones that they've happily, willingly and repeatedly chosen. Whatever you may think of the tech industry, it very closely reflects what most consumers want. If you want something no one else wants, make it or evangelize, asking the government to forcibly change outcomes is awful.

mrgordon 6y ago
Nobody wants a phone that doesn't allow them to add a third party app. They tolerate it due to lack of choice because the device still provides exceptional utility. Why is it so hard to understand? I like my iPhone. I worked at Apple. I still recognize its limitations. I'm not going to go without a phone to make a point to a $2 trillion company.
- themacguffinman 6y ago
  Because people do want a phone that doesn't allow them to add a third party app? A lot of people want Apple's walled garden to effectively make their choices for them and stop them from installing malicious garbage. They don't want to care or be conscious of the security decisions that users of more open platforms have to make. I'm not saying I like what Apple does, but I do recognize that the majority of consumers want the sort of locked down experience that Apple provides. I don't expect you to make a point to a trillion dollar company, I expect you to recognize that Apple became a trillion dollar company because consumers really want what they're making, as locked down as it is.
  - mrgordon 6y ago
    I've bought tons of iPhones. You can imply that I want a walled garden. But I don't and I've never met anyone who claimed they did. Its an Apple marketing point. Its not why people buy iPhones.
    - themacguffinman 6y ago
      I can believe you've never met them, but there they are. And they don't outright say they "like walled gardens" or something like that, they just love everything about the walled garden experience the iPhone provides them. You can even spot some of them in this thread, they want Apple to decide how much privacy they have, they want Apple to control and vet every app they install, they want Apple to limit what other software can do on their devices in ways that you can't limit in open platforms. And it only matters when it's backed by a purchasing decision. Someone can swear up and down that they hate walled gardens a lot but words mean nothing; if they turn around and purchase an iPhone over the plenty of open alternatives, it only signals that either they don't know what a walled garden is or they care about other stuff far more. Actually paying money for something cuts through all the bullshit consumers say to their friends or the internet about what they really want and what their priorities are. Markets don't give each individual consumer precisely what they want, they give large groups of consumers what they want weighted by consumer priorities. In that way, most consumers get what they really want. Obviously that means some consumers don't get what they want and perhaps that's you, I don't always get what I want either. But sorry, if most consumers really wanted a device without a walled garden, they wouldn't have willingly and repetitively bought iPhones over more open devices. If there were a large consumer group of people that really want a good device without a walled garden and are willing back up their desires by paying for one, businesses will be aching to take their money. In fact, there already are many open alternatives that serve these people well. According to you your iPhone has issues even though you own one, but evidently these issues are so minor that you won't even give alternatives your money to avoid them. "But I really don't like it" is worth as much as it cost to say that, which is absolutely nothing.