5 ms·

> In my opinion the value is in the network and the ability to move money instantly (or at very least faster than traditional methods), securely, to anywhere in

> In my opinion the value is in the network and the ability to move money instantly (or at very least faster than traditional methods), securely, to anywhere in the world for a fraction of a cent. That ability alone is valuable and hasn't existed until now. I spent some time working in a relatively-unknown but high volume clearing bank. Banks can and do move billions instantly, and have done so for years through SWIFT and ACH. It takes literal seconds for a confirmation to pass through different clearing networks around the world. Even today, we're seeing banks improve their correspondence networks with each other. For example, you could have a Transferwise Account where you receive USD and convert to GBP. If you wanted to move that to a Monzo account, you can do so instantly as Transferwise and Monzo have accounts either with each other or in the same institution. The bank debits and credits each counterparty immediately. At the end of the day, it nets its position, then sends its report to the central bank, netting positions between other participants. Looking at crypto from the outside, I really don't see the added value based on existing infrastructure. It seems more like a proof of concept rather than a viable long-term asset.

JxLS-cpgbe0 6y ago
SWIFT gpi can't compete with Ripple on a number of important issues. Ripple transfers don't pass through multiple banks and the actual value of the XRP is transferred, not just the data (of the SWIFT ledger). > Banks can and do move billions instantly We're not just talking about banks, and if I open my own bank tomorrow I can't use SWIFT the same day (the way I can with Ripple), I have no relationships with correspondent banks. This is the added value to existing infrastructure.
- diab0lic 6y ago
  I think what the grandparent post is trying to make clear is that there is no technical impediment to moving money instantly as some others have claimed here. It isn't that the amazing technology of blockchain has allowed us to achieve this for the first time. The reality is that this completely unregulated space is allowing people to sidestep a bunch of regulation and thus move money faster. If crypto becomes an issue the powers that be are going to do one of two things; 1) Regulate crypto such that it isn't an issue anymore and is in line with existing systems. 2) Improve the regulation such that the existing monetary systems move money more quickly/easily/whatever. Crypto has an edge in neither of these situations.
  - JxLS-cpgbe0 6y ago
    > there is no technical impediment to moving money instantly as some others have claimed here Yes, there are quite a few where crypto has an undeniable advantage, I listed a couple. > has allowed us to achieve this for the first time That is wrong, we have never been able to use the improvements to the 45+ y/o SWIFT network (Ripple creates) that we can today. > Regulate crypto such that it isn't an issue anymore How will you require correspondent banking when 200+ banks are already side-stepping it? > make the existing monetary systems move money more quickly How would you make SWIFT settle accounts more quickly? How would you remove the incredibly high prices on traditional wire transfers?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
pwm 6y ago
The fundamental point of bitcoin is that you don’t need banks. Whether that’s good or bad will be debated for years to come.
- notreallytrue 6y ago
  You don't need banks to transfer money, you need them for loans
clarky07 6y ago
so why does it still take me 3+ business days to move money between banks? I assume it's just because they use that float to make money, but it still sucks. i for one like transactions clearing in a few seconds rather than a few days.
- joosters 6y ago
  It's because you don't live in the EU. Millions of people have had instant money transfers for years now.
  - mettamage 6y ago
    But this is the power of bitcoin right? Now I can live in South America and get near-instant (crypto)currency transfers as well.
    - badestrand 6y ago
      That's not really a unique value proposition, as there are PayPal (and probably others) for many years already. And PayPal is free for private transfers, compared to BitCoin's ~$5/transaction.
      - mettamage 6y ago
        I wonder if everyone has access to that. And for the people that don't, I wonder if they have access to bitcoin.
    - short_sells_poo 6y ago
      In fact what parent is saying is that fast transaction speeds are not something that are solely enabled by bitcoin. There is absolutely no technical reason why transfers have to take days between banks. That's just down to the banks in your country having a crappy infrastructure. In fact, among the interesting properties of Bitcoin, I'd rate transaction speeds as the least relevant - chiefly because network throughput and transaction speed is actually pretty poor if you compare it to what is achievable with classical tech.
JoshTko 6y ago
the cost/speed of transaction value of Bitcoin is probably overstates vs existing alternatives. The real bitcoin advantage is that bitcoin transactions require no authority's approval in order to make the transaction. Meaning you can still make the transaction even your residing country decides you are an enemy of the state. Imagine having the power to control your finances as you wish even if you are a dissident in an authoritarian regime.

JxLS-cpgbe0 6y ago

SWIFT gpi can't compete with Ripple on a number of important issues. Ripple transfers don't pass through multiple banks and the actual value of the XRP is transferred, not just the data (of the SWIFT ledger). > Banks can and do move billions instantly We're not just talking about banks, and if I open my own bank tomorrow I can't use SWIFT the same day (the way I can with Ripple), I have no relationships with correspondent banks. This is the added value to existing infrastructure.

diab0lic 6y ago
I think what the grandparent post is trying to make clear is that there is no technical impediment to moving money instantly as some others have claimed here. It isn't that the amazing technology of blockchain has allowed us to achieve this for the first time. The reality is that this completely unregulated space is allowing people to sidestep a bunch of regulation and thus move money faster. If crypto becomes an issue the powers that be are going to do one of two things; 1) Regulate crypto such that it isn't an issue anymore and is in line with existing systems. 2) Improve the regulation such that the existing monetary systems move money more quickly/easily/whatever. Crypto has an edge in neither of these situations.
- JxLS-cpgbe0 6y ago
  > there is no technical impediment to moving money instantly as some others have claimed here Yes, there are quite a few where crypto has an undeniable advantage, I listed a couple. > has allowed us to achieve this for the first time That is wrong, we have never been able to use the improvements to the 45+ y/o SWIFT network (Ripple creates) that we can today. > Regulate crypto such that it isn't an issue anymore How will you require correspondent banking when 200+ banks are already side-stepping it? > make the existing monetary systems move money more quickly How would you make SWIFT settle accounts more quickly? How would you remove the incredibly high prices on traditional wire transfers?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

pwm 6y ago

The fundamental point of bitcoin is that you don’t need banks. Whether that’s good or bad will be debated for years to come.

notreallytrue 6y ago
You don't need banks to transfer money, you need them for loans

clarky07 6y ago

so why does it still take me 3+ business days to move money between banks? I assume it's just because they use that float to make money, but it still sucks. i for one like transactions clearing in a few seconds rather than a few days.

joosters 6y ago
It's because you don't live in the EU. Millions of people have had instant money transfers for years now.
- mettamage 6y ago
  But this is the power of bitcoin right? Now I can live in South America and get near-instant (crypto)currency transfers as well.
  - badestrand 6y ago
    That's not really a unique value proposition, as there are PayPal (and probably others) for many years already. And PayPal is free for private transfers, compared to BitCoin's ~$5/transaction.
    - mettamage 6y ago
      I wonder if everyone has access to that. And for the people that don't, I wonder if they have access to bitcoin.
  - short_sells_poo 6y ago
    In fact what parent is saying is that fast transaction speeds are not something that are solely enabled by bitcoin. There is absolutely no technical reason why transfers have to take days between banks. That's just down to the banks in your country having a crappy infrastructure. In fact, among the interesting properties of Bitcoin, I'd rate transaction speeds as the least relevant - chiefly because network throughput and transaction speed is actually pretty poor if you compare it to what is achievable with classical tech.

JoshTko 6y ago

the cost/speed of transaction value of Bitcoin is probably overstates vs existing alternatives. The real bitcoin advantage is that bitcoin transactions require no authority's approval in order to make the transaction. Meaning you can still make the transaction even your residing country decides you are an enemy of the state. Imagine having the power to control your finances as you wish even if you are a dissident in an authoritarian regime.