5 ms·

What is a _healthy_ gut microbiome? And if it's not healthy, how to make it healthy?

newlikeice 6y ago
http://www.gapsdiet.com http://www.gapsdiet.com in my research I was led here. But not sure on the accuracy but they seem to have methods.
- gerbal 6y ago
  This looks a lot like quackery. A miracle diet that will cure almost all ailments? Sounds too good to be true. The author encourages parents to disregard Physician advice in favor of a vaguely formulated diet advice and expensive supplements, which the author sells. Also lots of enemas and no MMR vaccines.
- jchrisa 6y ago
  This diet is well regarded in my research as well, and prescribed for people with inflammation problems. It also happens to look like the 1st week or so of any kind of elimination diet / partial fasting. I don't know if they are trying to sell something, but you can get the benefits without buying anything, so they don't seem like quacks to me.
viburnum 6y ago
The consensus view is more vegetables and fiber, and less processed food.
- pujaile 6y ago
  Yes. It seems to be connected with the synthesis of short-chain fatty acids by gut bacteria. Beta-glucan is also helpful in this regard; sources include porridge oats, mushrooms and supplementation.
- whycombagator 6y ago
  Agreed. Specifically, prebiotic foods & foods that contain cultures (such as yogurt) make most sense to me (as a layperson).
  - viburnum 6y ago
    I’m not an expert but from what I’ve read you don’t need to eat the biota to get them, you just need to make them a happy home and they’ll find their way into your gut.
    - blacksmith_tb 6y ago
      My sense is that's right, but it makes it sounds a little too magical. It might be better to say that most of the strains you want to encourage are already present, but a diet with lots of fiber (aka 'prebiotics') will encourage the good strains to outcompete the bad strains. It's a pretty complex balance, there are also phages, and some fungi all mixed up in there.
      - viburnum 6y ago
        It was a long time ago now but I remember reading an article about a researcher who tested his gut biome every day or so and it was amazing how quickly things change depending on what you eat.
  - robotnikman 6y ago
    Fermented foods like Sauerkraut as well
rebuilder 6y ago
As I understand it, we don't know. People in different areas have very different gut microbiomes and correlations with health outcomes are not the same between different populations... At least that was what I remember reading some years ago.
core-questions 6y ago
I'm a former IBS sufferer and have found that carefully managing my gut health has massively improved my quality of life. It's not the most scientific approach, but generally speaking, your gut is probably reasonably healthy if: * you do not experience intestinal discomfort on a regular basis * you can eat a wide variety of foods without getting unexpected diarrhea or constipation (i.e. when eating foods that typically do not do this to a wide range of people) * your bowel movements are consistent, complete, a good colour, not painful, not loose, not hard * you are not overweight/underweight And of course, you can help all of this along... * basically never eat fast food if you can avoid it, especially shitty McD's ground beef * avoid taking antibiotics unless you're really sick enough to need them they can wipe out your microbiome and set you back months or years of progress) take supplemental calcium and vitamin D * eat a wide variety of foods, including oily and spicy things; you can "train" your system to handle things by eating them in smaller quantities as you get started and then gradually eat more * but avoid eating too wide a variety of foods in one meal as that's most likely to overwhelm the gut's capability to effectively digest things * yogurt, cheese, fermented stuff of almost any sort (without alcohol) all seem to be beneficial * while we're at it, make sure you get enough iron, from red meat and dark green veg! It's anecdotal of course but you can find any number of studies supporting this stuff. For me, taking my diet seriously didn't mean restricting in any serious sense how _much_ I eat, or even _what_, so much as balancing things to ensure I don't overwhelm the system. In 2017 I had to take antibiotics for something and it seriously set me back years, I was back to having a horrible time at least once or twice a week from things I had been eating no problem before, and only by late 2019 was I really feeling confident to go and eat, say, spicy Mexican food again. At this point in time I would have to be sick enough that I'd be missing months of work to take antibiotics again.
- chris_st 6y ago
  > take supplemental calcium But if you're male, do not take too much... High calcium intake has been associated with an increased risk of advanced-stage and high-grade prostate cancer [1]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4266887/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4266887/
  - 6y ago
jonsen 6y ago
Alflorex worked for me: https://www.precisionbiotics.com/uk/alflorex https://www.precisionbiotics.com/uk/alflorex
- whycombagator 6y ago
  How did you determine it worked? Looks like it's just a single, patented, probiotic strain[0] I did a very brief search and couldn't find any compelling information on it (not to say that such evidence doesn't exist). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifidobacterium_longum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifidobacterium_longum
  - jonsen 6y ago
    My IBS worsened and for several months I had recurring constipation and some abdominal pain keeping me awake in the night. I tried changing diet and several medicaments but no change. When starting Alflorex symptoms eased after a few days and were totally gone after a week. They say it typically takes longer. Can’t say it wasn’t a coincidence of course.
forgotmypw17 6y ago
i'm not scientist, just independent researcher. healthy means able to digest food, absorb nutrients, and handle foreigners without much immune system involvement. i keep mine healthy by avoiding preservative chemicals and processed food in general, avoiding antibiotics unless i really need them (tick bite), fasting, eating fermented and rotting food, avoiding stress, eating dirt, swimming in ocean, not going overboard with cleanliness. most bacterial infections with undesirable results, eg strep throat, resolve for me with a 2-day water fast supplemented with raw onion and garlic and lemon. in addition to gut, there are biomes everywhere else. i don,t use soap or any other "products" on my body. i only use one soap for all my soapy needs, one made traditionally (bronners solid as of 2020)
- javert 6y ago
  Wait, just to be sure---you're saying you do eat rotting food and dirt?
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    Yes
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    not just any dirt, i have a system for it, and it is not a lot, just for biome diversity. it's a process and ritual which occupies most of an entire day. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110602162820.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110602162820.h... here is an interesting interview about biome culture from a raw meat diet guy (not what i eat) https://www.vice.com/en/article/nnqw3q/this-guy-has-eaten-nothing-but-raw-meat-for-five-years https://www.vice.com/en/article/nnqw3q/this-guy-has-eaten-no...

http://www.gapsdiet.com http://www.gapsdiet.com in my research I was led here. But not sure on the accuracy but they seem to have methods.

gerbal 6y ago
This looks a lot like quackery. A miracle diet that will cure almost all ailments? Sounds too good to be true. The author encourages parents to disregard Physician advice in favor of a vaguely formulated diet advice and expensive supplements, which the author sells. Also lots of enemas and no MMR vaccines.
jchrisa 6y ago
This diet is well regarded in my research as well, and prescribed for people with inflammation problems. It also happens to look like the 1st week or so of any kind of elimination diet / partial fasting. I don't know if they are trying to sell something, but you can get the benefits without buying anything, so they don't seem like quacks to me.

viburnum 6y ago

The consensus view is more vegetables and fiber, and less processed food.

pujaile 6y ago
Yes. It seems to be connected with the synthesis of short-chain fatty acids by gut bacteria. Beta-glucan is also helpful in this regard; sources include porridge oats, mushrooms and supplementation.
whycombagator 6y ago
Agreed. Specifically, prebiotic foods & foods that contain cultures (such as yogurt) make most sense to me (as a layperson).
- viburnum 6y ago
  I’m not an expert but from what I’ve read you don’t need to eat the biota to get them, you just need to make them a happy home and they’ll find their way into your gut.
  - blacksmith_tb 6y ago
    My sense is that's right, but it makes it sounds a little too magical. It might be better to say that most of the strains you want to encourage are already present, but a diet with lots of fiber (aka 'prebiotics') will encourage the good strains to outcompete the bad strains. It's a pretty complex balance, there are also phages, and some fungi all mixed up in there.
    - viburnum 6y ago
      It was a long time ago now but I remember reading an article about a researcher who tested his gut biome every day or so and it was amazing how quickly things change depending on what you eat.
- robotnikman 6y ago
  Fermented foods like Sauerkraut as well

rebuilder 6y ago

As I understand it, we don't know. People in different areas have very different gut microbiomes and correlations with health outcomes are not the same between different populations... At least that was what I remember reading some years ago.

core-questions 6y ago

I'm a former IBS sufferer and have found that carefully managing my gut health has massively improved my quality of life. It's not the most scientific approach, but generally speaking, your gut is probably reasonably healthy if: * you do not experience intestinal discomfort on a regular basis * you can eat a wide variety of foods without getting unexpected diarrhea or constipation (i.e. when eating foods that typically do not do this to a wide range of people) * your bowel movements are consistent, complete, a good colour, not painful, not loose, not hard * you are not overweight/underweight And of course, you can help all of this along... * basically never eat fast food if you can avoid it, especially shitty McD's ground beef * avoid taking antibiotics unless you're really sick enough to need them they can wipe out your microbiome and set you back months or years of progress) take supplemental calcium and vitamin D * eat a wide variety of foods, including oily and spicy things; you can "train" your system to handle things by eating them in smaller quantities as you get started and then gradually eat more * but avoid eating too wide a variety of foods in one meal as that's most likely to overwhelm the gut's capability to effectively digest things * yogurt, cheese, fermented stuff of almost any sort (without alcohol) all seem to be beneficial * while we're at it, make sure you get enough iron, from red meat and dark green veg! It's anecdotal of course but you can find any number of studies supporting this stuff. For me, taking my diet seriously didn't mean restricting in any serious sense how _much_ I eat, or even _what_, so much as balancing things to ensure I don't overwhelm the system. In 2017 I had to take antibiotics for something and it seriously set me back years, I was back to having a horrible time at least once or twice a week from things I had been eating no problem before, and only by late 2019 was I really feeling confident to go and eat, say, spicy Mexican food again. At this point in time I would have to be sick enough that I'd be missing months of work to take antibiotics again.

chris_st 6y ago
> take supplemental calcium But if you're male, do not take too much... High calcium intake has been associated with an increased risk of advanced-stage and high-grade prostate cancer [1]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4266887/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4266887/
- 6y ago

jonsen 6y ago

Alflorex worked for me: https://www.precisionbiotics.com/uk/alflorex https://www.precisionbiotics.com/uk/alflorex

whycombagator 6y ago
How did you determine it worked? Looks like it's just a single, patented, probiotic strain[0] I did a very brief search and couldn't find any compelling information on it (not to say that such evidence doesn't exist). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifidobacterium_longum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifidobacterium_longum
- jonsen 6y ago
  My IBS worsened and for several months I had recurring constipation and some abdominal pain keeping me awake in the night. I tried changing diet and several medicaments but no change. When starting Alflorex symptoms eased after a few days and were totally gone after a week. They say it typically takes longer. Can’t say it wasn’t a coincidence of course.

forgotmypw17 6y ago

i'm not scientist, just independent researcher. healthy means able to digest food, absorb nutrients, and handle foreigners without much immune system involvement. i keep mine healthy by avoiding preservative chemicals and processed food in general, avoiding antibiotics unless i really need them (tick bite), fasting, eating fermented and rotting food, avoiding stress, eating dirt, swimming in ocean, not going overboard with cleanliness. most bacterial infections with undesirable results, eg strep throat, resolve for me with a 2-day water fast supplemented with raw onion and garlic and lemon. in addition to gut, there are biomes everywhere else. i don,t use soap or any other "products" on my body. i only use one soap for all my soapy needs, one made traditionally (bronners solid as of 2020)

javert 6y ago
Wait, just to be sure---you're saying you do eat rotting food and dirt?
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  Yes
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  not just any dirt, i have a system for it, and it is not a lot, just for biome diversity. it's a process and ritual which occupies most of an entire day. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110602162820.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110602162820.h... here is an interesting interview about biome culture from a raw meat diet guy (not what i eat) https://www.vice.com/en/article/nnqw3q/this-guy-has-eaten-nothing-but-raw-meat-for-five-years https://www.vice.com/en/article/nnqw3q/this-guy-has-eaten-no...