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Stripe, like PayPal, is becoming too fundamental as a layer of our financial infrastructure. One issue I have with them is that they take an aggressive approach

Stripe, like PayPal, is becoming too fundamental as a layer of our financial infrastructure. One issue I have with them is that they take an aggressive approach to censorship and deplatforming, encoding their political biases into their offerings instead of taking a hands-off pro-free-speech approach. There are many examples of them banning users or organizations who are not aligned with their progressive world view. Stripe is basically PayPal 2.0, and their censorship actions remind me of PayPal and the credit card processors blocking donations to WikiLeaks.

dylan604 6y ago
You have examples of this? Are you saying they lean left or right? You have the axe to grind, so I feel like the burden of proof is on you. Your down votes makes me feel like I'm not the only one thinking this way, but without evidence to back up your claims... Your throwaway account is also very chickenshit-esque.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  There are many examples of Stripe leaning left, in terms of who they are deplatforming. They tend to take action whenever facing activist pressure from random people/organizations on Twitter like the "Sleeping Giants" group. From a quick Google search, here is an example I turned up, where Stripe discussed deplatforming Gab with activists directly - those activists then demanded Stripe change their TOS, and threatened to leak all their emails discussing Gab with them: https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/10/29/left-wing-deplatform-hate-threatens-payment-processor-stripe-over-terms-of-service/ https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/10/29/left-wing-deplatfo.... The same article notes a couple other examples of people banned from Stripe towards the end. I should also note, that I don't actually use Gab and don't follow these particular conservatives that Stripe kicked off their platform. However, I think free speech is a fundamentally important principle to uphold, particularly at the base layers of society. Payment processing is in reality a function that should just be a public utility (and therefore subject to constitutional free speech protection). When a cabal of banks and other payment systems (PayPal, Stripe) can be targeted/pressured to deplatform someone, and even act in coordination (as Visa/MasterCard have many times), the victims of their action effectively lose their right to free speech for all practical purposes. This opaque, arbitrary process of judging who is allowed and not allowed on their platform also raises questions as to whether Stripe can be trusted as a stable foundation to build a business on. For example, if I am a business owner and I make donations to Republican candidates, will I now have to think about whether Stripe will suddenly block me? And with Stripe moving from service customers to enabling customers of their customers, does their political judgment also extend to indirect customers? I don't want to lend more platform power to PayPal 2.0 - Stripe needs to get away from political activism and come out in support of being hands-off except for what the law minimally requires. > Your throwaway account is also very chickenshit-esque Regarding my account...I am not sure why that is relevant. The name has 'throwaway' in it but this is my only account.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    Did you seriously just use a Breitbart link for proof? I think that's all the proof that I needed. Not for the actual question at hand, but it definitely answered a lot more.
    - throwawaysea 6y ago
      Yes I did use a Breitbart link, because they happened to have good coverage of that story and showed up at the top of search results. Other sources, such as more 'mainstream' ones I follow (NYT, WaPo, WSJ, etc.) did not cover this story seemingly, which may be either a simple omission or a product of their own bias. The fact that the link is from Breitbart shouldn't be a reason for you to disregard my argument. Evaluate the content in there describing the particular incident - it's easy to corroborate.
zie 6y ago
Banks tend to be just as picky. Seeing as Stripe needs continuing love from banks, they are probably contractually obligated to be equally picky. This is a banking and regulation issue probably and not a Stripe or Paypal specific issue.

dylan604 6y ago

You have examples of this? Are you saying they lean left or right? You have the axe to grind, so I feel like the burden of proof is on you. Your down votes makes me feel like I'm not the only one thinking this way, but without evidence to back up your claims... Your throwaway account is also very chickenshit-esque.

throwawaysea 6y ago
There are many examples of Stripe leaning left, in terms of who they are deplatforming. They tend to take action whenever facing activist pressure from random people/organizations on Twitter like the "Sleeping Giants" group. From a quick Google search, here is an example I turned up, where Stripe discussed deplatforming Gab with activists directly - those activists then demanded Stripe change their TOS, and threatened to leak all their emails discussing Gab with them: https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/10/29/left-wing-deplatform-hate-threatens-payment-processor-stripe-over-terms-of-service/ https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/10/29/left-wing-deplatfo.... The same article notes a couple other examples of people banned from Stripe towards the end. I should also note, that I don't actually use Gab and don't follow these particular conservatives that Stripe kicked off their platform. However, I think free speech is a fundamentally important principle to uphold, particularly at the base layers of society. Payment processing is in reality a function that should just be a public utility (and therefore subject to constitutional free speech protection). When a cabal of banks and other payment systems (PayPal, Stripe) can be targeted/pressured to deplatform someone, and even act in coordination (as Visa/MasterCard have many times), the victims of their action effectively lose their right to free speech for all practical purposes. This opaque, arbitrary process of judging who is allowed and not allowed on their platform also raises questions as to whether Stripe can be trusted as a stable foundation to build a business on. For example, if I am a business owner and I make donations to Republican candidates, will I now have to think about whether Stripe will suddenly block me? And with Stripe moving from service customers to enabling customers of their customers, does their political judgment also extend to indirect customers? I don't want to lend more platform power to PayPal 2.0 - Stripe needs to get away from political activism and come out in support of being hands-off except for what the law minimally requires. > Your throwaway account is also very chickenshit-esque Regarding my account...I am not sure why that is relevant. The name has 'throwaway' in it but this is my only account.
- dylan604 6y ago
  Did you seriously just use a Breitbart link for proof? I think that's all the proof that I needed. Not for the actual question at hand, but it definitely answered a lot more.
  - throwawaysea 6y ago
    Yes I did use a Breitbart link, because they happened to have good coverage of that story and showed up at the top of search results. Other sources, such as more 'mainstream' ones I follow (NYT, WaPo, WSJ, etc.) did not cover this story seemingly, which may be either a simple omission or a product of their own bias. The fact that the link is from Breitbart shouldn't be a reason for you to disregard my argument. Evaluate the content in there describing the particular incident - it's easy to corroborate.

zie 6y ago

Banks tend to be just as picky. Seeing as Stripe needs continuing love from banks, they are probably contractually obligated to be equally picky. This is a banking and regulation issue probably and not a Stripe or Paypal specific issue.