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If we can end up with superfast, supercool ARM-based Linux laptops, that'd be a huge deal :) Apple showed Debian running in a VM on an M1 prototype Mac nearly

If we can end up with superfast, supercool ARM-based Linux laptops, that'd be a huge deal :) Apple showed Debian running in a VM on an M1 prototype Mac nearly 6 months ago. I get that it won't be acceptable for some Linux diehards but the superfast, supercool ARM laptop running Linux will soon be an M1 MacBook Pro.

the_af 6y ago
If I can get it to run Linux not on a VM, but natively and without coexisting with macOS at all, then it'll be good enough for me!... ...except I cannot afford a macbook. The one I'm using now was paid for by my employer. More generally, I'd love to see fast ARM platforms not built by Apple.
- Toutouxc 6y ago
  I don't think you really pay that much extra for an Apple machine, especially for the M1 ones. I'm afraid that when/if fast ARM alternatives arrive, they will probably cost 80-100 % of what the MacBooks cost. So basically, if you can't afford a MacBook today, you won't be able to afford a comparable high-end ARM offering from, say, Dell.
  - snazz 6y ago
    One big difference is that MacBooks (and Apple products in general) retain their value far better than any other computer brand. If you're looking at the used market to save money, a Dell looks way cheaper because it's depreciated far more than the Apple machine.
    - hobby-coder-guy 6y ago
      I just but a New mac air after looking at the prices for used ones.
    - the_af 6y ago
      To be honest, I've never ever resold a laptop. Ever. I end up giving old laptops to friends or family who can't afford a new one. So resale price is a non-issue to me.
      - samoa42 6y ago
        resold once, neither the buyer nor me was happy with the deal. family and friends it is
  - the_af 6y ago
    I honestly don't know about the M1's, but I've never liked the price/specs ratio of Intel macbooks. While it's true their build is solid and they look good, they always seemed overpriced to me regarding specs. And even the build quality... a friend who's an Apple fan used to tell me "they are better quality, they have less problems" yet his macbooks seem to break down at about the same rate as my Dell, HP or Lenovo laptops, so... I've decided macbooks look good, have good quality screens and the best touchpads. I'm unwilling to pay a premium for that, and I don't even like OS X/macOS... > I'm afraid that when/if fast ARM alternatives arrive, they will probably cost 80-100 % of what the MacBooks cost. Possibly! I wouldn't buy them when they are the latest new thing, either.
- mypalmike 6y ago
  Local compensation practices where you live must really suck if you can't afford a $1000 laptop. :(
  - sound1 6y ago
    I feel this is not a very thoughtful comment. There can be many more reasons for not being able to afford a $1000 laptop other than local compensation right? Financial constraints like kids, mortgage, lack of spare cash for a new machine etc.?
  - the_af 6y ago
    I don't live in the US and I must politely ask you to see how the rest of the world lives. The macbook I was given costs, after customs, taxes and everything, $4000. Not $1000. Are there cheaper macbooks? Sure. Why would I want them, though?
    - mypalmike 6y ago
      I'm sorry if my post seemed rude in any way. First, this discussion is about the new MacBook Air that costs $1000 US which is why I mentioned that price point. I suppose tariffs and such would increase that substantially, so that's a fair point. My bad. That said, I believe there was discussion about the hypothetical situation where you did want a Mac. More to the point, I checked your post history before I commented, and I gathered you are a developer, somewhere in South America (?). I suspect that the code I write is probably no better than the code you write. But your pay is presumably quite a bit less than mine. My point was that it's unfortunate that like work doesn't yield like rewards. Now here I am going to make some assumptions... In all likelihood, people are amassing wealth off of your work in the same way they profit from mine. But due to local wage norms, they can pay you less and reap higher margins. They get to upgrade the yacht, but you might not even have enough free time time to use a boat even if you could afford one. It's possible that I extrapolated too much and that your situation is nothing like what I have inferred. Sorry in advance if that is the case.
- alwillis 6y ago
  ...except I cannot afford a MacBook You know, the M1 Mac mini is $699… And since you can attach up to 6 displays to it (or the MacBook Pro), you'd never have to look at macOS if really didn't want to. ;-) https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/24/m1-macs-able-to-run-six-external-displays/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/24/m1-macs-able-to-run-six...
  - the_af 6y ago
    But the M1 Mac mini is not a laptop. And in any case, if those are US prices, count about 4x in my country.
matheusmoreira 6y ago
Apple laptops have always been among the best in terms of quality. If you can run free software on it, even better. Is it actually possible to replace macOS with Linux though?
- alwillis 6y ago
  Apple hasn’t locked down the Apple Silicon Macs to prevent a non-Apple OS from being installed, so maybe? The main issue is driver support, since graphics, networking, etc. is all Apple proprietary hardware.

the_af 6y ago

If I can get it to run Linux not on a VM, but natively and without coexisting with macOS at all, then it'll be good enough for me!... ...except I cannot afford a macbook. The one I'm using now was paid for by my employer. More generally, I'd love to see fast ARM platforms not built by Apple.

Toutouxc 6y ago
I don't think you really pay that much extra for an Apple machine, especially for the M1 ones. I'm afraid that when/if fast ARM alternatives arrive, they will probably cost 80-100 % of what the MacBooks cost. So basically, if you can't afford a MacBook today, you won't be able to afford a comparable high-end ARM offering from, say, Dell.
- snazz 6y ago
  One big difference is that MacBooks (and Apple products in general) retain their value far better than any other computer brand. If you're looking at the used market to save money, a Dell looks way cheaper because it's depreciated far more than the Apple machine.
  - hobby-coder-guy 6y ago
    I just but a New mac air after looking at the prices for used ones.
  - the_af 6y ago
    To be honest, I've never ever resold a laptop. Ever. I end up giving old laptops to friends or family who can't afford a new one. So resale price is a non-issue to me.
    - samoa42 6y ago
      resold once, neither the buyer nor me was happy with the deal. family and friends it is
- the_af 6y ago
  I honestly don't know about the M1's, but I've never liked the price/specs ratio of Intel macbooks. While it's true their build is solid and they look good, they always seemed overpriced to me regarding specs. And even the build quality... a friend who's an Apple fan used to tell me "they are better quality, they have less problems" yet his macbooks seem to break down at about the same rate as my Dell, HP or Lenovo laptops, so... I've decided macbooks look good, have good quality screens and the best touchpads. I'm unwilling to pay a premium for that, and I don't even like OS X/macOS... > I'm afraid that when/if fast ARM alternatives arrive, they will probably cost 80-100 % of what the MacBooks cost. Possibly! I wouldn't buy them when they are the latest new thing, either.
mypalmike 6y ago
Local compensation practices where you live must really suck if you can't afford a $1000 laptop. :(
- sound1 6y ago
  I feel this is not a very thoughtful comment. There can be many more reasons for not being able to afford a $1000 laptop other than local compensation right? Financial constraints like kids, mortgage, lack of spare cash for a new machine etc.?
- the_af 6y ago
  I don't live in the US and I must politely ask you to see how the rest of the world lives. The macbook I was given costs, after customs, taxes and everything, $4000. Not $1000. Are there cheaper macbooks? Sure. Why would I want them, though?
  - mypalmike 6y ago
    I'm sorry if my post seemed rude in any way. First, this discussion is about the new MacBook Air that costs $1000 US which is why I mentioned that price point. I suppose tariffs and such would increase that substantially, so that's a fair point. My bad. That said, I believe there was discussion about the hypothetical situation where you did want a Mac. More to the point, I checked your post history before I commented, and I gathered you are a developer, somewhere in South America (?). I suspect that the code I write is probably no better than the code you write. But your pay is presumably quite a bit less than mine. My point was that it's unfortunate that like work doesn't yield like rewards. Now here I am going to make some assumptions... In all likelihood, people are amassing wealth off of your work in the same way they profit from mine. But due to local wage norms, they can pay you less and reap higher margins. They get to upgrade the yacht, but you might not even have enough free time time to use a boat even if you could afford one. It's possible that I extrapolated too much and that your situation is nothing like what I have inferred. Sorry in advance if that is the case.
alwillis 6y ago
...except I cannot afford a MacBook You know, the M1 Mac mini is $699… And since you can attach up to 6 displays to it (or the MacBook Pro), you'd never have to look at macOS if really didn't want to. ;-) https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/24/m1-macs-able-to-run-six-external-displays/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/24/m1-macs-able-to-run-six...
- the_af 6y ago
  But the M1 Mac mini is not a laptop. And in any case, if those are US prices, count about 4x in my country.

matheusmoreira 6y ago

Apple laptops have always been among the best in terms of quality. If you can run free software on it, even better. Is it actually possible to replace macOS with Linux though?

alwillis 6y ago
Apple hasn’t locked down the Apple Silicon Macs to prevent a non-Apple OS from being installed, so maybe? The main issue is driver support, since graphics, networking, etc. is all Apple proprietary hardware.