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There are still no XPS level laptops available with Ryzen CPUs, which makes me so sad. I'd like to upgrade my work machine but I'd prefer not to buy Intel at th

There are still no XPS level laptops available with Ryzen CPUs, which makes me so sad. I'd like to upgrade my work machine but I'd prefer not to buy Intel at this time.

fastest963 6y ago
Unfortunately, even if there was, they wouldn't have Thunderbolt so it would limit the external display options. Hopefully when USB4 starts rolling out it'll be a different story.
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  What's the benefit of Thunderbolt displays? I think it's far more common to just do DisplayPort on USB-C alternate mode, or for slightly more specialized screens, the USB-C ones with power delivery. Thunderbolt screens are really unusual in my experience. It's an understandable restriction if you already bought a Thunderbolt screen and need a new computer that's compatible with it, but requiring Thunderbolt case I might get a screen that needs it later is very far down my priority list of computer features.
  - fastest963 6y ago
    I have a dock with two 4k 60hz DisplayPort monitors that runs off TB3. Afaik that's not possible over USB.
    - kllrnohj 6y ago
      TB3's display output is just displayport. Identical to displayport over USB-C. You're only giving up the data part of TB3.
      - distances 6y ago
        TB3 is 40Gbps, USB-C 3.2 10Gbps. 4K@60Hz is possible over USB-C but 4K@120+Hz only with TB3 AFAIK (or dedicated DP cable of course).
        kllrnohj 6y ago
        The 40Gbps is for the data connection of TB3. The display part of TB3 is independent and is just DisplayPort. Both TB3 and USB-C alt-mode can do DisplayPort 1.4, assuming both sides support it of course. TB3 only actually requires DisplayPort 1.2. There's actually no difference here whatsoever on the display-only side of things. (side note, USB 3.2 achieves up to 20Gb/s, not 10Gb/s, and TB3 is also realistically only 20Gb/s as well unless you're sticking to the super short 0.5m cables)
        distances 6y ago
        Right, I was thinking of USB 3.1 Gen 2 which is 10Gpbs. Hooray for these naming schemes. But good to know about the display connection being the same. I was under the assumption that the increased data rate of TB3 could be used for DisplayPort connection too.
        hackerfromthefu 6y ago
        USB-C 3.2 comes in 5Gbps, 10Gbs and 20Gbs variants, called Gen 1, Gen 2, and Gen 2x2 respectively
    - wlesieutre 6y ago
      If you just want the displays, you can get that over vanilla USB-C: https://www.cablematters.com/pc-1220-126-usb-c-triple-4k-displayport-mst-hub-usb-c-to-displayport-splitter-with-dual-displayport-and-hdmi-for-windows.aspx https://www.cablematters.com/pc-1220-126-usb-c-triple-4k-dis... If you want displays and all your other dock stuff combined under a single cable, that's where you're better off with Thunderbolt, yes. The USB-C docks can do some of this (I think with DisplayLink) but not quite as well. A Thunderbolt dock doesn't limit your display choices like the comment I replied to was talking about though, you'd just use any normal DisplayPort screen. Worst case without it you're plugging in separate display cables in addition to a non-video USB hub.
- Matt3o12_ 6y ago
  This is not necessarily true. Apple sells their non Intel macs with Thunderbolt and there are some ryzen motherboards with thunderbolt support [1]. That being said, Thunderbolt is a lot less common on AMD boards probably because it is a lot more expensive then it would be on an Intel board. And Laptops so far have always received the budget treatment for ryzen chips (want a better screen? intel only, etc). So I think lack of thunderbolt comes down to manufacturers not wanting to pay as much for their AMD R&D and keep costs down with simple, budget motherboards. Or, if you needed Thunderbolt 3, you could just wait until USB 4 is commonplace, which is basically Thunderbolt 3 + some more. [1]: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXTB3/index.asp https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXTB3... (there are more, and even ATX boards, first one I could find).
- Grazester 6y ago
  There is nothing stopping manufactures from including Thunderbolt.
  - wmf 6y ago
    Well, nothing besides a bunch of R&D since AMD doesn't provide any reference design with Thunderbolt.
wazoox 6y ago
I've replaced my aging and failing 2013 XPS with a Ryzen 5 IdeaPad S540, cheap and slightly bigger but has a second internal M.2 slot, SD card slot, RAM upgraded to 32GB, and full size HDMI and USB A connectors for less than 900€. I'm happy with the upgrade, even if this machine won't last as long as the XPS (though its full metal case is sturdy enough).
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  >Ryzen 5 IdeaPad S540 Too bad that, like most Ryzen laptops, it only has a HDMI 1.4 port just like every Lidl/Aldi discount bin laptop from 2012, so you can't get 60Hz at 4K on your external monitor, which is laughable for a device that costs almost a thousand bucks. HDMI 2.0 devices have been on the market since like 2016 already. I don't know why all OEMs gimp the Ryzen variants like this. It's either they have slower USB/HDMI, or worse screens, or outdated wireless or less RAM/storage than the Intel version of the same device. One theory I heard, is Intel requires OEMs to sell a certain percentage of their chips on premium machines if they want to stay on their nice partners list and get their chips at good prices, so OEMs, in order to stay in Intel's good graces, just gimp the Ryzen ones to force your hand to buy Intel if you want no compromises, other than an outdated CPU. My aging laptop is in dire need of replacement and I would also want to replace it with a Ryzen one but the very few ones that have no major compromises have been sold out for months and show no signs of being restocked(in the EU at least) whereas Intel's outdated 9th and 10th gen based laptops are in stock everywhere but I wouldn't touch tose with a 10ft(3,048m) pole.
  - war1025 6y ago
    > so you can't get 60Hz at 4K on your external monitor Maybe my eyes just aren't that good, but I really can't see why I would need 4k over standard HD, which gives me plenty of screen real estate and a perfectly fine picture.
    - leoedin 6y ago
      4K is 4x the pixels of standard HD. You can fit 4 HD windows next to each other. That's a huge difference! Any work with spreadsheets or multiple window code comparison benefits tremendously.
KptMarchewa 6y ago
Thinkpad T14s is available with Ryzen 7 PRO 4750U, and while they don't have exactly same form factor, I personally would rate T14s higher.
wfleming 6y ago
Lenovo is selling several of the new T series Thinkpads with Ryzen chips. IHMO something like the T14s is pretty comparable to an XPS, but I don't know what your evaluation criteria are, and I have a personal preference for Thinkpads, so I'm biased.
- qzw 6y ago
  The T14s is great, but just needs a 16:10 screen. The new X1 Nano has that and is my ideal form factor, but it’s still Intel only.
- cowmoo728 6y ago
  The lenovo x13, which comes in intel or amd variants, is closer to the XPS13. I have the prior generation x395 running pop_os and it's fantastic.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- katsura 6y ago
  Thanks for the suggestion, I'm looking at those, but it looks like they have 8 gigs of soldered RAM. I'd like my next laptop to be a bit more futureproof than that, especially with all the electron apps popping everywhere. My current laptop is 7 years old with 8 gigs of RAM, and sometimes it has to swap and starts choking up, when I try to open too many things at once.
  - mfkp 6y ago
    You can upgrade it to 32gb, but it's soldered and non-upgradable unlike the regular T14.
- eddieoz 6y ago
  Thanks for the hint. I will take a look about it.
- zaxcellent 6y ago
secondcoming 6y ago
Indeed, same with Precision laptops. I unfortunately had time limits and had to bite the bullet with Intel. Gutted.
m12k 6y ago
Have you considered an Asus Zephyrus G14? It comes with a Ryzen 9 4900HS and Linus (Tech Tips) seemed very impressed with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqG31V4qtA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqG31V4qtA
- new23d 6y ago
  No Home/End keys and no webcam. Otherwise I would've been recommending that in this reply from one.
- hackerfromthefu 6y ago
  Omg that keyboard, what are they doing :(
conradfr 6y ago
I was very tempted to get the new XPS 13 but the Intel CPU + the reported QA issues made me reconsider. The problem is yes, there's no AMD equivalent it seems. Maybe T14s but it's not available in my country right now.

There are still no XPS level laptops available with Ryzen CPUs, which makes me so sad. I'd like to upgrade my work machine but I'd prefer not to buy Intel at this time.

fastest963 6y ago

Unfortunately, even if there was, they wouldn't have Thunderbolt so it would limit the external display options. Hopefully when USB4 starts rolling out it'll be a different story.

wlesieutre 6y ago
What's the benefit of Thunderbolt displays? I think it's far more common to just do DisplayPort on USB-C alternate mode, or for slightly more specialized screens, the USB-C ones with power delivery. Thunderbolt screens are really unusual in my experience. It's an understandable restriction if you already bought a Thunderbolt screen and need a new computer that's compatible with it, but requiring Thunderbolt case I might get a screen that needs it later is very far down my priority list of computer features.
- fastest963 6y ago
  I have a dock with two 4k 60hz DisplayPort monitors that runs off TB3. Afaik that's not possible over USB.
  - kllrnohj 6y ago
    TB3's display output is just displayport. Identical to displayport over USB-C. You're only giving up the data part of TB3.
    - distances 6y ago
      TB3 is 40Gbps, USB-C 3.2 10Gbps. 4K@60Hz is possible over USB-C but 4K@120+Hz only with TB3 AFAIK (or dedicated DP cable of course).
      - kllrnohj 6y ago
        The 40Gbps is for the data connection of TB3. The display part of TB3 is independent and is just DisplayPort. Both TB3 and USB-C alt-mode can do DisplayPort 1.4, assuming both sides support it of course. TB3 only actually requires DisplayPort 1.2. There's actually no difference here whatsoever on the display-only side of things. (side note, USB 3.2 achieves up to 20Gb/s, not 10Gb/s, and TB3 is also realistically only 20Gb/s as well unless you're sticking to the super short 0.5m cables)
        distances 6y ago
        Right, I was thinking of USB 3.1 Gen 2 which is 10Gpbs. Hooray for these naming schemes. But good to know about the display connection being the same. I was under the assumption that the increased data rate of TB3 could be used for DisplayPort connection too.
      - hackerfromthefu 6y ago
        USB-C 3.2 comes in 5Gbps, 10Gbs and 20Gbs variants, called Gen 1, Gen 2, and Gen 2x2 respectively
  - wlesieutre 6y ago
    If you just want the displays, you can get that over vanilla USB-C: https://www.cablematters.com/pc-1220-126-usb-c-triple-4k-displayport-mst-hub-usb-c-to-displayport-splitter-with-dual-displayport-and-hdmi-for-windows.aspx https://www.cablematters.com/pc-1220-126-usb-c-triple-4k-dis... If you want displays and all your other dock stuff combined under a single cable, that's where you're better off with Thunderbolt, yes. The USB-C docks can do some of this (I think with DisplayLink) but not quite as well. A Thunderbolt dock doesn't limit your display choices like the comment I replied to was talking about though, you'd just use any normal DisplayPort screen. Worst case without it you're plugging in separate display cables in addition to a non-video USB hub.
Matt3o12_ 6y ago
This is not necessarily true. Apple sells their non Intel macs with Thunderbolt and there are some ryzen motherboards with thunderbolt support [1]. That being said, Thunderbolt is a lot less common on AMD boards probably because it is a lot more expensive then it would be on an Intel board. And Laptops so far have always received the budget treatment for ryzen chips (want a better screen? intel only, etc). So I think lack of thunderbolt comes down to manufacturers not wanting to pay as much for their AMD R&D and keep costs down with simple, budget motherboards. Or, if you needed Thunderbolt 3, you could just wait until USB 4 is commonplace, which is basically Thunderbolt 3 + some more. [1]: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXTB3/index.asp https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXTB3... (there are more, and even ATX boards, first one I could find).
Grazester 6y ago
There is nothing stopping manufactures from including Thunderbolt.
- wmf 6y ago
  Well, nothing besides a bunch of R&D since AMD doesn't provide any reference design with Thunderbolt.

wazoox 6y ago

I've replaced my aging and failing 2013 XPS with a Ryzen 5 IdeaPad S540, cheap and slightly bigger but has a second internal M.2 slot, SD card slot, RAM upgraded to 32GB, and full size HDMI and USB A connectors for less than 900€. I'm happy with the upgrade, even if this machine won't last as long as the XPS (though its full metal case is sturdy enough).

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
>Ryzen 5 IdeaPad S540 Too bad that, like most Ryzen laptops, it only has a HDMI 1.4 port just like every Lidl/Aldi discount bin laptop from 2012, so you can't get 60Hz at 4K on your external monitor, which is laughable for a device that costs almost a thousand bucks. HDMI 2.0 devices have been on the market since like 2016 already. I don't know why all OEMs gimp the Ryzen variants like this. It's either they have slower USB/HDMI, or worse screens, or outdated wireless or less RAM/storage than the Intel version of the same device. One theory I heard, is Intel requires OEMs to sell a certain percentage of their chips on premium machines if they want to stay on their nice partners list and get their chips at good prices, so OEMs, in order to stay in Intel's good graces, just gimp the Ryzen ones to force your hand to buy Intel if you want no compromises, other than an outdated CPU. My aging laptop is in dire need of replacement and I would also want to replace it with a Ryzen one but the very few ones that have no major compromises have been sold out for months and show no signs of being restocked(in the EU at least) whereas Intel's outdated 9th and 10th gen based laptops are in stock everywhere but I wouldn't touch tose with a 10ft(3,048m) pole.
- war1025 6y ago
  > so you can't get 60Hz at 4K on your external monitor Maybe my eyes just aren't that good, but I really can't see why I would need 4k over standard HD, which gives me plenty of screen real estate and a perfectly fine picture.
  - leoedin 6y ago
    4K is 4x the pixels of standard HD. You can fit 4 HD windows next to each other. That's a huge difference! Any work with spreadsheets or multiple window code comparison benefits tremendously.

KptMarchewa 6y ago

Thinkpad T14s is available with Ryzen 7 PRO 4750U, and while they don't have exactly same form factor, I personally would rate T14s higher.

wfleming 6y ago

Lenovo is selling several of the new T series Thinkpads with Ryzen chips. IHMO something like the T14s is pretty comparable to an XPS, but I don't know what your evaluation criteria are, and I have a personal preference for Thinkpads, so I'm biased.

qzw 6y ago
The T14s is great, but just needs a 16:10 screen. The new X1 Nano has that and is my ideal form factor, but it’s still Intel only.
cowmoo728 6y ago
The lenovo x13, which comes in intel or amd variants, is closer to the XPS13. I have the prior generation x395 running pop_os and it's fantastic.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
katsura 6y ago
Thanks for the suggestion, I'm looking at those, but it looks like they have 8 gigs of soldered RAM. I'd like my next laptop to be a bit more futureproof than that, especially with all the electron apps popping everywhere. My current laptop is 7 years old with 8 gigs of RAM, and sometimes it has to swap and starts choking up, when I try to open too many things at once.
- mfkp 6y ago
  You can upgrade it to 32gb, but it's soldered and non-upgradable unlike the regular T14.
eddieoz 6y ago
Thanks for the hint. I will take a look about it.
zaxcellent 6y ago

secondcoming 6y ago

Indeed, same with Precision laptops. I unfortunately had time limits and had to bite the bullet with Intel. Gutted.

m12k 6y ago

Have you considered an Asus Zephyrus G14? It comes with a Ryzen 9 4900HS and Linus (Tech Tips) seemed very impressed with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqG31V4qtA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqG31V4qtA

new23d 6y ago
No Home/End keys and no webcam. Otherwise I would've been recommending that in this reply from one.
hackerfromthefu 6y ago
Omg that keyboard, what are they doing :(

conradfr 6y ago

I was very tempted to get the new XPS 13 but the Intel CPU + the reported QA issues made me reconsider. The problem is yes, there's no AMD equivalent it seems. Maybe T14s but it's not available in my country right now.