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Interesting article. Is there any way to mitigate the amount of data collected? If I turn GPS off can they still track my steps? One thing that I notice freq

Interesting article. Is there any way to mitigate the amount of data collected? If I turn GPS off can they still track my steps? One thing that I notice frequently is discussing some topic with my wife and then finding an AD related to the topic on Instagram, LinkedIn, and whatnot. Could be a coincidence but I not sure any more.

robin_reala 6y ago
On iOS at least you can allow an app access to location data only while the app is in use (or not at all). Not sure what the situation is on Android.
- lagadu 6y ago
  It's the same since at least Android 10, also you can allow one-off permissions as well.
- curiousgal 6y ago
  Same on Android 11. There's also an "Only this time" option.
  - quenix 6y ago
    That’s different. That would just ask you to confirm again if the app prompts. The iOS counterpart blocks location requests quietly when the app is in the background and allows them when the app is in the foreground.
- 1f60c 6y ago
  And, in iOS 14, you can also grant an app access to “imprecise” location data, which reduces its accuracy from about 20 feet to 2 miles.
diarrhea 6y ago
The tracking is extremly intrusive. With GPS turned off, accuracy is diminished, but locating the device is still possible via WiFi SSIDs and cell towers the phone is logged into. Maybe Bluetooth also plays a role. In the background, the phone uses its gyro sensors so it can tell what you are doing: walking, running, getting into a car/sitting down, getting out/up, ... The unsettling part is that location logging continues to work with the phone off (saw an admittedtly obscure YouTube video on that which I can't seem to dig up again). Like the Kindle, airplane mode also doesn't stop data from being transmitted to the overlords. It merely delays it from somewhat real-time to whenever you go online again.
- vlovich123 6y ago
  If you actually turn off location services in the OS none of this tracking occurs. About the only remaining source would be the mag of apps implement their own harvesting of the Earth’s magnetic field. Such things are extremely technically difficult to do well (you’d need to map the mag signals across the world) and the accuracy isn’t great (somewhere between wifi and coarse cellular if I recall correctly). If at any point this actually became a reality the OS would start treating mag access as needing location permissions.
  - vorpalhex 6y ago
    > If you actually turn off location services in the OS none of this tracking occurs. Location services doesn't disable bluetooth. If you're in a dense area, your local stores may have bluetooth beacons which will report location hits against your bluetooth ID, which may be tied to you through applications you install. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluetooth-wireless-tracking-privacy.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluet...
  - hedora 6y ago
    You also need to turn off the Bluetooth, cell, and wifi modems, and keep them off. https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-access-to-real-time-location-data/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-acces... It wouldn’t surprise me at all if baseband processors eventually start logging and asynchronously sending gps data to the cell carriers behind the operating system’s back, so you should also keep it in a mylar sack. Similarly the accelerometer can gather all sorts of information (passwords, text typed on the keyboard, are you driving, flying, walking, etc), so you’ll probably eventually need to keep the phone in a drawer to avoid leaking that information. Similarly for the microphone (some surveillance libraries already snoop sounds in various primitive ways). To recap: keep it off the network in a stationary, electromagnetically shielded, sound proof box. That’s simple enough, and from there you can use it as normal.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  > The unsettling part is that location logging continues to work with the phone off There are specific bits of malware that make the phone appear to be off when it is in fact powered on. Such malware typically requires root access or an exploit, and is the realm of shady governments not advertiser's. But if you don't have that malware, you can't be tracked when the phone is off.
derwiki 6y ago
Most likely a coincidence: https://www.avg.com/en/signal/facebook-listening-private-conversations https://www.avg.com/en/signal/facebook-listening-private-con... If it were true I feel confident that information would have leaked by now.
- miguendes 6y ago
  Nice, thanks for linking the article!
- Hamuko 6y ago
  >If it were true I feel confident that information would have leaked by now. Yeah, there's no way for Facebook to be actively listening to conversations on millions of phones connected to private home networks without someone noticing. And that's not even addressing that someone currently or formerly working at Facebook would just blow the whistle at some point. The problem with this conspiracy theory is that people just don't care about numbers and facts. They usually have an anecdote ("I was talking about cheese and hour later I got an ad for cheese") and that removes any need for hard evidence. Hard evidence that shouldn't be that hard to collect considering you own both the device and the network on which this supposed listening is happening on.
  - TurkishPoptart 6y ago
    But this definitely _does_ happen, and most people, even non-tech people are aware of it. There's just some people who refuse to believe it.
    - Hamuko 6y ago
      You mean that Facebook is definitely tapping your phone's microphone 24/7?
    - distances 6y ago
      If you mean the conspiracy theory, then some proof would be in order. That happening, and most people believing that to happen, are both outlandish claims. Spoiler: it actually does not happen. As the other person commented, snooping like this in scale would leak.
ph2082 6y ago
Same I noticed. One particular day I remember specifically because had a long call with friend who lives in some other city. We talked about meeting sometime in future, dating, job situation and travelling to Canada/Europe. With in hours I received promotional email about "travelling to the city my friend lives in". Dating site AD. Looking for Job and article about how to travel move to Canada/Europe. Fun day. People only think about Facebook, but there are other AdTech companies as well which do not get scrutinised as much.
KingMachiavelli 6y ago
As far as I know the largest offenders are still the cellular companies since they can and are selling location data that works without any software on the phone. It's technically less precise than GPS/wifi location data but since it's always active it's pretty easy to use weeks of data to improve the resolution. Besides that just don't install any apps you don't need. Stick to open source software, install a custom ROM on your phone, don't use Google location services, etc.
mmgu 6y ago
Turning off ad id in the OS and checking which apps have access to location would do wonders. Would also recommend checking which apps have access to the contact list.

robin_reala 6y ago

On iOS at least you can allow an app access to location data only while the app is in use (or not at all). Not sure what the situation is on Android.

lagadu 6y ago
It's the same since at least Android 10, also you can allow one-off permissions as well.
curiousgal 6y ago
Same on Android 11. There's also an "Only this time" option.
- quenix 6y ago
  That’s different. That would just ask you to confirm again if the app prompts. The iOS counterpart blocks location requests quietly when the app is in the background and allows them when the app is in the foreground.
1f60c 6y ago
And, in iOS 14, you can also grant an app access to “imprecise” location data, which reduces its accuracy from about 20 feet to 2 miles.

diarrhea 6y ago

The tracking is extremly intrusive. With GPS turned off, accuracy is diminished, but locating the device is still possible via WiFi SSIDs and cell towers the phone is logged into. Maybe Bluetooth also plays a role. In the background, the phone uses its gyro sensors so it can tell what you are doing: walking, running, getting into a car/sitting down, getting out/up, ... The unsettling part is that location logging continues to work with the phone off (saw an admittedtly obscure YouTube video on that which I can't seem to dig up again). Like the Kindle, airplane mode also doesn't stop data from being transmitted to the overlords. It merely delays it from somewhat real-time to whenever you go online again.

vlovich123 6y ago
If you actually turn off location services in the OS none of this tracking occurs. About the only remaining source would be the mag of apps implement their own harvesting of the Earth’s magnetic field. Such things are extremely technically difficult to do well (you’d need to map the mag signals across the world) and the accuracy isn’t great (somewhere between wifi and coarse cellular if I recall correctly). If at any point this actually became a reality the OS would start treating mag access as needing location permissions.
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  > If you actually turn off location services in the OS none of this tracking occurs. Location services doesn't disable bluetooth. If you're in a dense area, your local stores may have bluetooth beacons which will report location hits against your bluetooth ID, which may be tied to you through applications you install. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluetooth-wireless-tracking-privacy.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluet...
- hedora 6y ago
  You also need to turn off the Bluetooth, cell, and wifi modems, and keep them off. https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-access-to-real-time-location-data/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-acces... It wouldn’t surprise me at all if baseband processors eventually start logging and asynchronously sending gps data to the cell carriers behind the operating system’s back, so you should also keep it in a mylar sack. Similarly the accelerometer can gather all sorts of information (passwords, text typed on the keyboard, are you driving, flying, walking, etc), so you’ll probably eventually need to keep the phone in a drawer to avoid leaking that information. Similarly for the microphone (some surveillance libraries already snoop sounds in various primitive ways). To recap: keep it off the network in a stationary, electromagnetically shielded, sound proof box. That’s simple enough, and from there you can use it as normal.
londons_explore 6y ago
> The unsettling part is that location logging continues to work with the phone off There are specific bits of malware that make the phone appear to be off when it is in fact powered on. Such malware typically requires root access or an exploit, and is the realm of shady governments not advertiser's. But if you don't have that malware, you can't be tracked when the phone is off.

derwiki 6y ago

Most likely a coincidence: https://www.avg.com/en/signal/facebook-listening-private-conversations https://www.avg.com/en/signal/facebook-listening-private-con... If it were true I feel confident that information would have leaked by now.

miguendes 6y ago
Nice, thanks for linking the article!
Hamuko 6y ago
>If it were true I feel confident that information would have leaked by now. Yeah, there's no way for Facebook to be actively listening to conversations on millions of phones connected to private home networks without someone noticing. And that's not even addressing that someone currently or formerly working at Facebook would just blow the whistle at some point. The problem with this conspiracy theory is that people just don't care about numbers and facts. They usually have an anecdote ("I was talking about cheese and hour later I got an ad for cheese") and that removes any need for hard evidence. Hard evidence that shouldn't be that hard to collect considering you own both the device and the network on which this supposed listening is happening on.
- TurkishPoptart 6y ago
  But this definitely _does_ happen, and most people, even non-tech people are aware of it. There's just some people who refuse to believe it.
  - Hamuko 6y ago
    You mean that Facebook is definitely tapping your phone's microphone 24/7?
  - distances 6y ago
    If you mean the conspiracy theory, then some proof would be in order. That happening, and most people believing that to happen, are both outlandish claims. Spoiler: it actually does not happen. As the other person commented, snooping like this in scale would leak.

ph2082 6y ago

Same I noticed. One particular day I remember specifically because had a long call with friend who lives in some other city. We talked about meeting sometime in future, dating, job situation and travelling to Canada/Europe. With in hours I received promotional email about "travelling to the city my friend lives in". Dating site AD. Looking for Job and article about how to travel move to Canada/Europe. Fun day. People only think about Facebook, but there are other AdTech companies as well which do not get scrutinised as much.

KingMachiavelli 6y ago

As far as I know the largest offenders are still the cellular companies since they can and are selling location data that works without any software on the phone. It's technically less precise than GPS/wifi location data but since it's always active it's pretty easy to use weeks of data to improve the resolution. Besides that just don't install any apps you don't need. Stick to open source software, install a custom ROM on your phone, don't use Google location services, etc.

mmgu 6y ago

Turning off ad id in the OS and checking which apps have access to location would do wonders. Would also recommend checking which apps have access to the contact list.