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Qualcomm Details The Snapdragon 888: 3rd Gen 5G and Cortex-X1 on 5nm
- Causality1 6y agoI'm excited for what that big single core will do for applications that don't multi-thread well, like game console emulators.
- Aardwolf 6y agoHow come that 5G is part of a feature set of a CPU? Is 5G implementable in software?
- scotth 6y agoRead the article.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- baybal2 6y agoAlmost all modern modems do a ton of work in software on specialised DSPs. Trying to do a wholly SDR free 5G modem would be a monumental feat, and first attempts at implementations would probably be gigantic.
- monocasa 6y agoMore importantly, it would almost certainly be a broken implementation, without the ability to be updated. 5G is extremely complex, even when processing in software.
- Nokinside 6y agoNot in real time. If you want to do real time 5G calls (as you do when you prototype, test and develop) using software defined radio you buy one of those USRP boxes. They have CPU's DSPs that run software and then programmable FPGA's talking to ADCs and DACs.
- ne9xt 6y agoWhere can I find more information about the details of the interface of the modem firmware (ASIC) and the real time software?
- xxpor 6y agoCall up Qualcomm and offer millions of dollars?
- stagger87 6y agoHere is an interesting paper on the architecture of an LTE modem. Seems like a reasonable approach, although I don't know how prevalent this approach is. RFIC, some dedicated hardware for the PHY DSP stuff and an ARM chip for the high level logic, all connected via AXI bus. https://community.arm.com/cfs-file/__key/telligent-evolution-components-attachments/01-1996-00-00-00-00-46-60/ARM_2D00_CEVA-LTE_2D00_Advanced-White-Paper-Final.pdf https://community.arm.com/cfs-file/__key/telligent-evolution...
- red0point 6y agoThere‘s also Amarisoft, which does it in „real time“ in software, but not open source. I believe srsLTE, used to turn SDRs into eNodeB/UEs, adds support for 5G soon (tm).
- LeifCarrotson 6y agoIt's not a feature set of a CPU, this is an SOC, or System On Chip. It's not like an Intel 4004 that just does the processing and relies on external chips for peripherals, they bake in all the typical stuff that the system it's designed for (a cell phone) is expected to use. It contains 8 ARM cores (one of which is "the CPU"), a GPU, an AI DSP, a memory controller, 3 image signal processors for connection to cameras, video encoder/decoders, Bluetooth, Wifi, NFC, GPS/GNSS, dual SIM support, probably some general-purpose inputs and outputs, plus, yes, a 5G modem. To sum up the explanations given for why it's part of the SOC and not an external device on a bus: > Last year’s ... external 5G modem such as the X55 helped the 5G transition as it was available to vendors earlier than the Snapdragon 865 SoC itself, allowing them to design their RF systems before having access to the newest SoC. > The platform’s reabsorption of the modem into the SoC die should signify better power efficiency, lower platform cost as well as lower PCB complexity for smartphone vendors.
- chrisjc 6y agoHow does this compare to the latest A14 (i think that's the latest) when it comes to "baked in" radio set? Is it still external on apple device and it's just a matter of time until they bake in what they acquired from Intel? Or are they already baking it in and just paying royalties to Qualcomm?
- TorKlingberg 6y agoApple use a separate modem chip. iPhone12 has a Qualcomm SDR865 baseband and SDX55M radio. There have been rumours about Apple making their own modem, and presumably integrate it in an A-series SoC, but nothing yet. A 5G modem is pretty complicated tech. I used to work on Nvidia's Icera, but that's gone now. A lot of chip makers have given up, and Qualcomm is the undisputed leader. MediaTek dominates in low-mid end Androids. I think Huawei & Samsung both have something.
- LeifCarrotson 6y agoThe A14 uses an external Qualcomm radio, much like Android phones based on the previous Qualcomm Snapdragon 865. Take a look at the yellow and green boxed SDR865 and SDX55M in this image of the iPhone 12 with A14 motherboard from the iFixit teardown: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+12+and+12+Pro+Teardown/137669#s274767 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+12+and+12+Pro+Teardow... The same are in yellow and red on the Samsung Galaxy S20 with Snapdragon 865 teardown: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S20+Ultra+Teardown/131607#s259200 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S20+Ultra+Tea... The SDR865 and SDX55M are the external 5G parts that would disappear with the 888. Compare the PCB area used for those (they're both almost as large as the whole SOC; I'm sure much of that is driven not by silicon area or thermal requirements but by a lot of power and pins for high-speed host communication) to this teardown of the Galaxy S10, which has the Snapdragon 855 with an integrated 4G modem: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S10+and+S10e+Teardown/120331#s232018 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S10+and+S10e+... Apple has said they want to integrate the 5G modem by 2022.
- swiley 6y agoWho cares if they won't share the driver source you'll have to throw it out after 2 years anyway.
- Iolaum 6y agoIf they shared the sources it would guarantee doubling the lifetime of the device. By the way I think Qualcomm do share sources (through code Aurora?). But they don't upstream them. Writing this from a zl1 running LOS17.1 using Snapdragon 821. P.S. Big thanks to mosimach for being device and specialised kernel fork maintainer.
- Solocomplex 6y agoThey make their money the second it's sold, and don't make any after. Why should they care how long it lives?
- swiley 6y agoI just checked and didn't see any graphics drivers.
- bzb6 6y agoYou can keep using mobiles even after stop receiving updates. They don’t get remotely disabled or anything.
- jmnicolas 6y agoFor most people their phone is their most important tech device where a lot of critical data transit (banking, social etc) so using an unsecured phone isn't a good idea.
- neallindsay 6y agoWell, sometimes they get remotely disabled by ransomware.
- loudmax 6y agoYou can keep using your old phone, but no updates means no security updates. This means your browser and other apps are susceptible to compromise. As time goes on the exploits are automated, this becomes less the provenance of determined organizations, and more accessible to script kiddies or casual hackers. If the drivers are open source you can at least run something like LineageOS or another Android derived open source ROM and still run an updated OS on your old hardware.
- desmap 6y agoFor days, I'm reading about the 888, its Cortex X1 and a 35% uplift and that it's coming (some day) but I couldn't find a single word about how it will perform against the M1. Even Anandtech dares to bring four, full pages of fluff. This is what most are interested in and Qualcomm should asap disclose the performance and/or give an outlook on what is coming, always referencing M1's performance as the current benchmark.
- baybal2 6y ago888 will likely be still n-times slower than Apple M1 per-core/clock, even if you fit it with equally fast I/O, and cache. I believe X1 will still be able to beat Firestorm on size/performance ratio.
- desmap 6y agoThis. Exactly my gut feeling and the press is not questioning anything just rephrasing press releases from Qualcomm, writing about so important details like why the name 888 and so on. Qualcomm and Intel should come out asap and tell what they plan to do in the next 12-18 months, e.g. embedding RAM or whatever, to match M1' performance. But they rather work on original naming schemes. Good that I sold my Qualcomm stocks years ago.
- SSLy 6y ago>embedding RAM or whatever Due to the different way the cells are made that'd be very, very expensive.
- Demiurge 6y agoCan you explain why 888 will be n-times slower? Assuming, with n greater than 1. I just looked up the Snapdragon performance vs Apple A14, and it is within ~10% [1]. I have also compared it to an intel processor, and it also ahead [2]. From a quick search, it looks like Qualcomm is a competitive contender, if we're going to ARM. If true, that would be a pretty exciting new world of ARM PCs :) [1] https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-snapdragon-865-plus-vs-apple-a14-bionic https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-snapdragon-86... [2] https://gadgetversus.com/processor/qualcomm-sm8250-snapdragon-865-vs-intel-core-i7-8650u/#:~:text=The%20processor%20Qualcomm%20SM8250%20Snapdragon,Snapdragon%20865%20was%20designed%20earlier https://gadgetversus.com/processor/qualcomm-sm8250-snapdrago....
- throwaway4good 6y agoWould be interesting to see how this compares to Huawei's Kirin 9000 chip which seems to have a similar set of features (5G modem, 5nm fab, ARM).