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No. You said "just don't buy it" if you don't like it. But I need a smartphone. So I'm going to buy one. My point is if they all have different drawbacks (this

No. You said "just don't buy it" if you don't like it. But I need a smartphone. So I'm going to buy one. My point is if they all have different drawbacks (this one is better for "openness", that one is better for privacy, this one is better for security) then saying people should just not buy Apple to protest one decision isn't helpful. Because by doing that I would probably end up needing to buy an Android phone which means I would give up other things like privacy. And then if I mention that you'll say we should have just not bought Google phones. Well yeah. But yeah they control the market. So you buy the least evil product you can that is fairly priced and works with all your other stuff. Or just blame the consumer cause they didn't choose the mythical Linux phone with great battery life and no spyware.

themacguffinman 6y ago
Again, you just don't like your options. You've decided that our modern smartphones are evil and also decided that you must have a smartphone. I'm not here to tell you that you should have just not bought X phone, I'm here to tell you that you have a choice as a consumer to buy what you want, and if you don't want anything available, that's not anyone's problem. For millions of consumers, an Android phone or iPhone or Samsung phone is a great option and is largely what they really want. The phones that people buy today are phones that most people have repeatedly chosen over others, including some phones you may have liked. Sorry you don't like the current choices, society has never owed anyone a mythical Linux phone. If you want something that doesn't exist, make it yourself or convince other consumers to buy it as well so companies find it worth their while. Go buy Purism. Don't whine to the government that it's not fair you can't get a mythical Linux phone.
- mrgordon 6y ago
  Lol I never whined about not getting a mythical Linux phone. I don't even want one particularly. My point was that your claim to "just not buy it" doesn't work when its an essential item in modern society like food, water, housing, or a computer. Its easy to sit here from your armchair and say "well if dumb consumers hadn't bought smartphones like this then we wouldn't have them so they shouldn't complain." But you, of course, have a smartphone from one of these manufacturers because like everyone else you realized you basically need one these days if you work or travel. We created rules that favor tech mega corps and now they dominate the industry. So your "solution" isn't really a solution. You say people should have made some amazingly insightful decision to boycott all smartphones fifteen years ago but since they didn't we are stuck with the brands we have and its the consumers' fault...
  - themacguffinman 6y ago
    It does work, you just don't like the results. Most consumers have gotten exactly what they wanted. I never said everyone should have boycotted all smartphones, I said that if consumers didn't like the smartphones we have they wouldn't have bought them. They practiced "just don't buy it" for all the other dead tech options that no longer exist today. Consumers clearly don't believe that there is a problem that needs a "solution". Let me be clear: it's your problem to deal with as a minority consumer who apparently doesn't like anything most other consumers like. The tech world we live in today is the world that most consumers want and are happy with. You are stuck with the brands we have, the rest of the consumer market have bought the smartphones that they've happily, willingly and repeatedly chosen. Whatever you may think of the tech industry, it very closely reflects what most consumers want. If you want something no one else wants, make it or evangelize, asking the government to forcibly change outcomes is awful.
    - mrgordon 6y ago
      Nobody wants a phone that doesn't allow them to add a third party app. They tolerate it due to lack of choice because the device still provides exceptional utility. Why is it so hard to understand? I like my iPhone. I worked at Apple. I still recognize its limitations. I'm not going to go without a phone to make a point to a $2 trillion company.
      - themacguffinman 6y ago
        Because people do want a phone that doesn't allow them to add a third party app? A lot of people want Apple's walled garden to effectively make their choices for them and stop them from installing malicious garbage. They don't want to care or be conscious of the security decisions that users of more open platforms have to make. I'm not saying I like what Apple does, but I do recognize that the majority of consumers want the sort of locked down experience that Apple provides. I don't expect you to make a point to a trillion dollar company, I expect you to recognize that Apple became a trillion dollar company because consumers really want what they're making, as locked down as it is.

themacguffinman 6y ago

Again, you just don't like your options. You've decided that our modern smartphones are evil and also decided that you must have a smartphone. I'm not here to tell you that you should have just not bought X phone, I'm here to tell you that you have a choice as a consumer to buy what you want, and if you don't want anything available, that's not anyone's problem. For millions of consumers, an Android phone or iPhone or Samsung phone is a great option and is largely what they really want. The phones that people buy today are phones that most people have repeatedly chosen over others, including some phones you may have liked. Sorry you don't like the current choices, society has never owed anyone a mythical Linux phone. If you want something that doesn't exist, make it yourself or convince other consumers to buy it as well so companies find it worth their while. Go buy Purism. Don't whine to the government that it's not fair you can't get a mythical Linux phone.

mrgordon 6y ago
Lol I never whined about not getting a mythical Linux phone. I don't even want one particularly. My point was that your claim to "just not buy it" doesn't work when its an essential item in modern society like food, water, housing, or a computer. Its easy to sit here from your armchair and say "well if dumb consumers hadn't bought smartphones like this then we wouldn't have them so they shouldn't complain." But you, of course, have a smartphone from one of these manufacturers because like everyone else you realized you basically need one these days if you work or travel. We created rules that favor tech mega corps and now they dominate the industry. So your "solution" isn't really a solution. You say people should have made some amazingly insightful decision to boycott all smartphones fifteen years ago but since they didn't we are stuck with the brands we have and its the consumers' fault...
- themacguffinman 6y ago
  It does work, you just don't like the results. Most consumers have gotten exactly what they wanted. I never said everyone should have boycotted all smartphones, I said that if consumers didn't like the smartphones we have they wouldn't have bought them. They practiced "just don't buy it" for all the other dead tech options that no longer exist today. Consumers clearly don't believe that there is a problem that needs a "solution". Let me be clear: it's your problem to deal with as a minority consumer who apparently doesn't like anything most other consumers like. The tech world we live in today is the world that most consumers want and are happy with. You are stuck with the brands we have, the rest of the consumer market have bought the smartphones that they've happily, willingly and repeatedly chosen. Whatever you may think of the tech industry, it very closely reflects what most consumers want. If you want something no one else wants, make it or evangelize, asking the government to forcibly change outcomes is awful.
  - mrgordon 6y ago
    Nobody wants a phone that doesn't allow them to add a third party app. They tolerate it due to lack of choice because the device still provides exceptional utility. Why is it so hard to understand? I like my iPhone. I worked at Apple. I still recognize its limitations. I'm not going to go without a phone to make a point to a $2 trillion company.
    - themacguffinman 6y ago
      Because people do want a phone that doesn't allow them to add a third party app? A lot of people want Apple's walled garden to effectively make their choices for them and stop them from installing malicious garbage. They don't want to care or be conscious of the security decisions that users of more open platforms have to make. I'm not saying I like what Apple does, but I do recognize that the majority of consumers want the sort of locked down experience that Apple provides. I don't expect you to make a point to a trillion dollar company, I expect you to recognize that Apple became a trillion dollar company because consumers really want what they're making, as locked down as it is.