4 ms·

The thing that angered me the most was Boeing refusing to admit responsibility and fighting the authorities that were grounding the plane. They knew people were

The thing that angered me the most was Boeing refusing to admit responsibility and fighting the authorities that were grounding the plane. They knew people were dying and were willing to let more people die without remorse. In my mind that was a criminal action.

sagarm 6y ago
That kind of sociopathic behavior is natural outcome of business culture that is solely about maximizing shareholder value. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.
- youareostriches 6y ago
  >I'm not sure what can be done to fix it. Regulations which require engineers or their union representatives to sit on the corporate board of directors.
- craftinator 6y ago
  There was a device invented in France in the late 1700s designed to solve that exact problem.
  - napier 6y ago
    Ouch. Sharp observation.
  - johannes1234321 6y ago
    That device is a statement to a changing public mindset. Not a solution in itself. In a society where 40% of voters back a corrupt president even after a term where he focussed on enriching himself, I don't see the required readiness.
- jacobush 6y ago
  >I'm not sure what can be done to fix it. Regulations which require engineers or their union representatives to sit on the corporate board of directors. (Such as in the deplorable communist countries Germany, Austria, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, France and Denmark.)
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    Not sure why this is being downvoted, it doesn't seem that outrageous. There's even precedence in the US for this approach: in the legal profession, only lawyers are permitted to own or to manage a law firm.
    - adwww 6y ago
      > Not sure why this is being downvoted Because it mentioned unions is my guess.
- napier 6y ago
  Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. That’s a good point.
- SerLava 6y ago
  You can't simply acculturate businesses against it- they will slowly be replaced by other businesses headed by ruthless sociopathic maximizers of shareholder value. This is the guaranteed outcome given this way of organizing commerce. Just as if you organized everyone into medieval guilds, we would replicate the behavior of medieval guilds.
  - scottlocklin 6y ago
    >they will slowly be replaced by other businesses headed by ruthless sociopathic maximizers of shareholder value. I dunno man, the culture came from McDonnell-Douglass which was actually purchased by engineer-centric-at-the-time Boeing. How this culture spread in Boeing ought to be some kind of HBS case study, except they wouldn't notice that it should be taken as a cautionary tale.
    - dotancohen 6y ago
      For those unfamiliar with the case: Boeing and McDonnell-Douglass actually merged, but the name stayed Boeing. It is often said in the industry that McDonnell-Douglass bought Boeing with Boeing's own money. The company that today uses the name Boeing looks, acts, and quacks a lot more like 1970s-1995 MD did, than 1970s-1995 Boeing did.
      - alavesto 6y ago
        And McDonnell-Douglass were/are true masters of building deadly aircraft.
    - SerLava 6y ago
      My comment really didn't intend to rule out mergers, or even businesses changing by themselves. I'm just saying they inevitably end up that way, by replacement if necessary.
- varispeed 6y ago
  First of all shareholder income should be taxed the same way as employment income. I think (at least in my country) it is absolutely disgusting that when you draw dividends from a business you pay less tax than if you were drawing a salary. If taxation was the same across the board, then there will be no incentive for shareholders to insist on extracting the value through dividends. The next thing is that in many cases shareholders are de-facto directors in terms of influence, this means they should also share the same liabilities and responsibilities. This should be a start to make it healthier.
- sn41 6y ago
  A lot can be done to fix things. Prompt prosecution against management, including manslaughter charges where applicable. This no longer "wink, wink, nudge nudge" stretching the rules that is prevalent. Hundreds have already lost their lives.
blkknightarms 6y ago
737 NG Ducommun structural parts debacle was similar and hundreds of those aircraft fly everywhere, everyday until one lands harder than normal, then it breaks up.

sagarm 6y ago

That kind of sociopathic behavior is natural outcome of business culture that is solely about maximizing shareholder value. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.

youareostriches 6y ago
>I'm not sure what can be done to fix it. Regulations which require engineers or their union representatives to sit on the corporate board of directors.
craftinator 6y ago
There was a device invented in France in the late 1700s designed to solve that exact problem.
- napier 6y ago
  Ouch. Sharp observation.
- johannes1234321 6y ago
  That device is a statement to a changing public mindset. Not a solution in itself. In a society where 40% of voters back a corrupt president even after a term where he focussed on enriching himself, I don't see the required readiness.
jacobush 6y ago
>I'm not sure what can be done to fix it. Regulations which require engineers or their union representatives to sit on the corporate board of directors. (Such as in the deplorable communist countries Germany, Austria, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, France and Denmark.)
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  Not sure why this is being downvoted, it doesn't seem that outrageous. There's even precedence in the US for this approach: in the legal profession, only lawyers are permitted to own or to manage a law firm.
  - adwww 6y ago
    > Not sure why this is being downvoted Because it mentioned unions is my guess.
napier 6y ago
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. That’s a good point.
SerLava 6y ago
You can't simply acculturate businesses against it- they will slowly be replaced by other businesses headed by ruthless sociopathic maximizers of shareholder value. This is the guaranteed outcome given this way of organizing commerce. Just as if you organized everyone into medieval guilds, we would replicate the behavior of medieval guilds.
- scottlocklin 6y ago
  >they will slowly be replaced by other businesses headed by ruthless sociopathic maximizers of shareholder value. I dunno man, the culture came from McDonnell-Douglass which was actually purchased by engineer-centric-at-the-time Boeing. How this culture spread in Boeing ought to be some kind of HBS case study, except they wouldn't notice that it should be taken as a cautionary tale.
  - dotancohen 6y ago
    For those unfamiliar with the case: Boeing and McDonnell-Douglass actually merged, but the name stayed Boeing. It is often said in the industry that McDonnell-Douglass bought Boeing with Boeing's own money. The company that today uses the name Boeing looks, acts, and quacks a lot more like 1970s-1995 MD did, than 1970s-1995 Boeing did.
    - alavesto 6y ago
      And McDonnell-Douglass were/are true masters of building deadly aircraft.
  - SerLava 6y ago
    My comment really didn't intend to rule out mergers, or even businesses changing by themselves. I'm just saying they inevitably end up that way, by replacement if necessary.
varispeed 6y ago
First of all shareholder income should be taxed the same way as employment income. I think (at least in my country) it is absolutely disgusting that when you draw dividends from a business you pay less tax than if you were drawing a salary. If taxation was the same across the board, then there will be no incentive for shareholders to insist on extracting the value through dividends. The next thing is that in many cases shareholders are de-facto directors in terms of influence, this means they should also share the same liabilities and responsibilities. This should be a start to make it healthier.
sn41 6y ago
A lot can be done to fix things. Prompt prosecution against management, including manslaughter charges where applicable. This no longer "wink, wink, nudge nudge" stretching the rules that is prevalent. Hundreds have already lost their lives.

blkknightarms 6y ago

737 NG Ducommun structural parts debacle was similar and hundreds of those aircraft fly everywhere, everyday until one lands harder than normal, then it breaks up.