3 ms·

This is really obviously clear to the point wherein it shouldn't be a discussion. Anyone with two years in any industry has to know this. If you make an ultima

by jariel 6y ago

This is really obviously clear to the point wherein it shouldn't be a discussion. Anyone with two years in any industry has to know this. If you make an ultimatum to your employer, and they don't want to accept, assume that it's over, right then and there. Unless you're Michael Jordan, or have some kind of really existential terms with the company.

fxtentacle 6y ago
I'm surprised that she opted to publicly put the blame on someone and link to their Twitter. That could be interpreted as a dog whistle to her followers to start the public shaming. But at the very least, I'd guess that this will make any potential future employer think twice if they really want to be her manager. And lastly, I remember the name Jeff Dean from reading about advanced AI research, so if someone publicly says "Jeff Bean says XY is unbearable", I'd be inclined to just believe it. All in all, this looks to me like Timnit Gebru could improve her career chances by being a bit more diplomatic with her public announcements.
- thu2111 6y ago
  Jeff Dean isn't just someone from advanced AI research. He's one of the longest time Google employees and a key part of the company's success. He's one of the chief engineers behind MapReduce, BigTable, Spanner, the re-awakening of neural network research and many other incredible achievements. At one point inside Google there was a website called "Jeff Dean Facts" similar to the Chuck Norris facts. The guys reputation is out of this world. He's also a rather mild mannered and very nice man. When I worked there I never heard anyone say anything bad about Dean. He rarely expressed strong opinions even on engineering topics; the sort of guy who prefers to win debates by simply coding up the best solution. The name Timnit Gebru also rings bells for me. Last time this name came up she was busy chasing Yann LeCun off Twitter with pitchforks. LeCun! One of the other major luminaries of AI research. In fact she stirred up so much trouble and made so many outrageous accusations he quit Twitter altogether. She appears to be a serious troublemaker, far more interested in identity politics than AI. She was an embarrassment to Google before and it's good for them they finally canned her, but seriously, why did it take this long? And who will hire her next? I'm sure someone will be dumb enough to do that but hardly any companies have openings for "ethical AI researchers", and she already burned her bridges at Facebook.
  - NalNezumi 6y ago
    I'm not sure why this is downvoted? I fact checked the Yann Lecun claim and I learned something new. Similar to Stallmans pitchforking, it's a sad case.
  - tasuki 6y ago
    Wow... didn't connect the two! I remember the Yann LeCun controversy. Didn't dive into it. Now the same person has an issue with Jeff Dean?
  - cloudfiend 6y ago
    I second the fact that Jeff is an extremely mild-mannered and kind (and supportive to young employees) person. If he reacted this way I assume his patience must have been worked to the ground...
- jariel 6y ago
  "I'm surprised that she opted to publicly put the blame on someone and link to their Twitter." Because public division creates sides, and taking one of those sides gives you favour with one group. A pragmatic, mild mannered person who works on such issues behind the scenes is not going to be popular. But division makes enemies in one camp, allies in the other. Now we all know someone's name whereas we wouldn't have before. So one can make a career out championing said allies. I think a lot of people have this instinct, just expressed in different ways.
- flippinburgers 6y ago
  She is being dishonest from what I can tell. She thought she could just boss people around without consequence but now she is - hopefully - finding out that isn't the case. I really hope Google doesn't buckle under Twitter pressure...

by jariel 6y ago

fxtentacle 6y ago

I'm surprised that she opted to publicly put the blame on someone and link to their Twitter. That could be interpreted as a dog whistle to her followers to start the public shaming. But at the very least, I'd guess that this will make any potential future employer think twice if they really want to be her manager. And lastly, I remember the name Jeff Dean from reading about advanced AI research, so if someone publicly says "Jeff Bean says XY is unbearable", I'd be inclined to just believe it. All in all, this looks to me like Timnit Gebru could improve her career chances by being a bit more diplomatic with her public announcements.

thu2111 6y ago
Jeff Dean isn't just someone from advanced AI research. He's one of the longest time Google employees and a key part of the company's success. He's one of the chief engineers behind MapReduce, BigTable, Spanner, the re-awakening of neural network research and many other incredible achievements. At one point inside Google there was a website called "Jeff Dean Facts" similar to the Chuck Norris facts. The guys reputation is out of this world. He's also a rather mild mannered and very nice man. When I worked there I never heard anyone say anything bad about Dean. He rarely expressed strong opinions even on engineering topics; the sort of guy who prefers to win debates by simply coding up the best solution. The name Timnit Gebru also rings bells for me. Last time this name came up she was busy chasing Yann LeCun off Twitter with pitchforks. LeCun! One of the other major luminaries of AI research. In fact she stirred up so much trouble and made so many outrageous accusations he quit Twitter altogether. She appears to be a serious troublemaker, far more interested in identity politics than AI. She was an embarrassment to Google before and it's good for them they finally canned her, but seriously, why did it take this long? And who will hire her next? I'm sure someone will be dumb enough to do that but hardly any companies have openings for "ethical AI researchers", and she already burned her bridges at Facebook.
- NalNezumi 6y ago
  I'm not sure why this is downvoted? I fact checked the Yann Lecun claim and I learned something new. Similar to Stallmans pitchforking, it's a sad case.
- tasuki 6y ago
  Wow... didn't connect the two! I remember the Yann LeCun controversy. Didn't dive into it. Now the same person has an issue with Jeff Dean?
- cloudfiend 6y ago
  I second the fact that Jeff is an extremely mild-mannered and kind (and supportive to young employees) person. If he reacted this way I assume his patience must have been worked to the ground...
jariel 6y ago
"I'm surprised that she opted to publicly put the blame on someone and link to their Twitter." Because public division creates sides, and taking one of those sides gives you favour with one group. A pragmatic, mild mannered person who works on such issues behind the scenes is not going to be popular. But division makes enemies in one camp, allies in the other. Now we all know someone's name whereas we wouldn't have before. So one can make a career out championing said allies. I think a lot of people have this instinct, just expressed in different ways.
flippinburgers 6y ago
She is being dishonest from what I can tell. She thought she could just boss people around without consequence but now she is - hopefully - finding out that isn't the case. I really hope Google doesn't buckle under Twitter pressure...