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FWIW, I don't see any pilots or aviation experts saying this. I think it's actually still poorly designed -- I don't think they added a third AoA sensor and us

FWIW, I don't see any pilots or aviation experts saying this. I think it's actually still poorly designed -- I don't think they added a third AoA sensor and used a quorum on them, as Airbus does given their own link of AoA to an automatic flight control.

0xy 6y ago
There's been hundreds of independent pilots and experts who have signed off on the plane from multiple regulatory bodies and other independents. Including 565 independent pilots in Europe alone. [1] No other plane in the history of aviation has had this level of scrutiny. [1] https://www.airlineratings.com/news/boeing-737-max-safe-fly-says-european-regulator/ https://www.airlineratings.com/news/boeing-737-max-safe-fly-...
- cjbprime 6y ago
  That's fine, but signing off on it just means that they were convinced that it's airworthy. Your own [1] link even says: > “While the software upgrades and changes are enough to get the plane back in the air, the agency is still demanding the development of a so-called synthetic sensor (that will be ready in 20 to 24 months) to reach even higher safety levels.” This seems clear that we're talking about a conditional airworthiness rather than absolute confidence, safest plane ever made, etc etc. Recall that you said "It's probably far safer now than other models". Why are you saying that given that the experts you quoted are using the paragraph above for this plane, when they don't have similar concerns and requirements for other models?
  - 0xy 6y ago
    Because safety is far from a binary equation. Safety is a sliding scale that never reaches 100%. If the Max is 99.9999% safe and regulators are demanding they make it at least 99.99991% safe it doesn't detract from my point. If other planes received this level of scrutiny, changes would similarly be demanded. The practice of re-badging old models is widespread. I'm telling you that personally, I'd exclusively travel on just the Max for the rest of my days and wouldn't lose sleep.
alkonaut 6y ago
Do you see lots of pilots or aviation experts saying the opposite? Are there Max pilots that have come out and said "I'm done flying that thing"?
- tremon 6y ago
  How many airline pilots are in a position to publically say that and still keep their jobs?
  - alkonaut 6y ago
    You can speak out anonymously in media interviews. Ryanair pilots do this frequnetly when it comes to unions/working environment...
- cjbprime 6y ago
  I argued that it is untrue that aviation experts and pilots now consider it to be much safer than other models as a result of the scrutiny. You asked if any of those people have publicly refused to fly it, presumably because they think it's a deathtrap. That isn't a response to my actual position, or something I expected to happen.
  - alkonaut 6y ago
    Fair enough

0xy 6y ago

There's been hundreds of independent pilots and experts who have signed off on the plane from multiple regulatory bodies and other independents. Including 565 independent pilots in Europe alone. [1] No other plane in the history of aviation has had this level of scrutiny. [1] https://www.airlineratings.com/news/boeing-737-max-safe-fly-says-european-regulator/ https://www.airlineratings.com/news/boeing-737-max-safe-fly-...

cjbprime 6y ago
That's fine, but signing off on it just means that they were convinced that it's airworthy. Your own [1] link even says: > “While the software upgrades and changes are enough to get the plane back in the air, the agency is still demanding the development of a so-called synthetic sensor (that will be ready in 20 to 24 months) to reach even higher safety levels.” This seems clear that we're talking about a conditional airworthiness rather than absolute confidence, safest plane ever made, etc etc. Recall that you said "It's probably far safer now than other models". Why are you saying that given that the experts you quoted are using the paragraph above for this plane, when they don't have similar concerns and requirements for other models?
- 0xy 6y ago
  Because safety is far from a binary equation. Safety is a sliding scale that never reaches 100%. If the Max is 99.9999% safe and regulators are demanding they make it at least 99.99991% safe it doesn't detract from my point. If other planes received this level of scrutiny, changes would similarly be demanded. The practice of re-badging old models is widespread. I'm telling you that personally, I'd exclusively travel on just the Max for the rest of my days and wouldn't lose sleep.

alkonaut 6y ago

Do you see lots of pilots or aviation experts saying the opposite? Are there Max pilots that have come out and said "I'm done flying that thing"?

tremon 6y ago
How many airline pilots are in a position to publically say that and still keep their jobs?
- alkonaut 6y ago
  You can speak out anonymously in media interviews. Ryanair pilots do this frequnetly when it comes to unions/working environment...
cjbprime 6y ago
I argued that it is untrue that aviation experts and pilots now consider it to be much safer than other models as a result of the scrutiny. You asked if any of those people have publicly refused to fly it, presumably because they think it's a deathtrap. That isn't a response to my actual position, or something I expected to happen.
- alkonaut 6y ago
  Fair enough