4 ms·

How do they have a monopoly when there are many other messaging apps?

coderintherye 6y ago
You are thinking of Facebook's technology, not Facebook's business. Business is what matters in terms of monopoly. Facebook's business is ads. Google + Facebook have a virtual duopoly on online ad revenue.
- onlyrealcuzzo 6y ago
  Amazon has a non-trivial ad business... (Still does not mean this is not a problem)
latch 6y ago
I'm honestly not sure if you implicitly meant that these other apps are popular/used - which would be valid, but I guess we'd need to get the market share #, or if you are asking strictly based on the presence of competition. Monopoly is defined by market share in a specific regions, not by the unavailability of alternatives (1). So it doesn't matter if there are "many other messaging apps" what matters is what's being used. (1) https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...
onlyrealcuzzo 6y ago
There were tons of oil companies beside Standard Oil...
AnthonyMouse 6y ago
> How do they have a monopoly when there are many other messaging apps? Monopoly is with respect to a market. If everyone on the East Coast uses AT&T to the exclusion of any other provider, and you could only communicate with AT&T customers by becoming an AT&T customer, that's a monopoly on the customers on the East Coast. Even if everyone on the West Coast used Verizon. The fact that the Facebook customers aren't all concentrated in a specific geographic area doesn't really change anything. If the only way to communicate with a large population of specific individuals is to use Facebook, they have a monopoly on the market for communication with those individuals. That wouldn't be true if they were using a federated protocol -- like the telephone network is in real life, but like Facebook is not -- because then you could sign up for some other service and still "call" the people on Facebook.
- chrismcb 6y ago
  Are you saying, if the only way to communicate with Facebook users, is to use Facebook? I think if users are only allowed to use Facebook then it might be an issue. But it sounds like you are saying company X has a monopoly because only users of company X can use company X programs. That doesn't sound like a monopoly to me. In the US who only has access to Facebook?
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    The issue is that you can't switch from Facebook to something else by yourself. You may want to use Signal, but the 75 people you want to communicate with on Facebook don't have Signal, and the cost of convincing every one of them to switch so that you don't have to use Facebook is insurmountable. Whenever there is a network effect, anyone with a monopoly on the network has a monopoly on a market.
    - crakhamster01 6y ago
      By this logic, shouldn't every messaging app that's not based on an open protocol be subject to lawsuit? I would love if every network was interoperable, but that approach requires broad regulation - not just suing Facebook.
      - cecja 6y ago
        Every messaging app above a critical user threshold, yes.
- mindslight 6y ago
  It bothers me that you've swapped the coasts of the telcos from their traditional regions.

You are thinking of Facebook's technology, not Facebook's business. Business is what matters in terms of monopoly. Facebook's business is ads. Google + Facebook have a virtual duopoly on online ad revenue.

onlyrealcuzzo 6y ago
Amazon has a non-trivial ad business... (Still does not mean this is not a problem)

latch 6y ago

I'm honestly not sure if you implicitly meant that these other apps are popular/used - which would be valid, but I guess we'd need to get the market share #, or if you are asking strictly based on the presence of competition. Monopoly is defined by market share in a specific regions, not by the unavailability of alternatives (1). So it doesn't matter if there are "many other messaging apps" what matters is what's being used. (1) https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

onlyrealcuzzo 6y ago

There were tons of oil companies beside Standard Oil...

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

> How do they have a monopoly when there are many other messaging apps? Monopoly is with respect to a market. If everyone on the East Coast uses AT&T to the exclusion of any other provider, and you could only communicate with AT&T customers by becoming an AT&T customer, that's a monopoly on the customers on the East Coast. Even if everyone on the West Coast used Verizon. The fact that the Facebook customers aren't all concentrated in a specific geographic area doesn't really change anything. If the only way to communicate with a large population of specific individuals is to use Facebook, they have a monopoly on the market for communication with those individuals. That wouldn't be true if they were using a federated protocol -- like the telephone network is in real life, but like Facebook is not -- because then you could sign up for some other service and still "call" the people on Facebook.

chrismcb 6y ago
Are you saying, if the only way to communicate with Facebook users, is to use Facebook? I think if users are only allowed to use Facebook then it might be an issue. But it sounds like you are saying company X has a monopoly because only users of company X can use company X programs. That doesn't sound like a monopoly to me. In the US who only has access to Facebook?
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  The issue is that you can't switch from Facebook to something else by yourself. You may want to use Signal, but the 75 people you want to communicate with on Facebook don't have Signal, and the cost of convincing every one of them to switch so that you don't have to use Facebook is insurmountable. Whenever there is a network effect, anyone with a monopoly on the network has a monopoly on a market.
  - crakhamster01 6y ago
    By this logic, shouldn't every messaging app that's not based on an open protocol be subject to lawsuit? I would love if every network was interoperable, but that approach requires broad regulation - not just suing Facebook.
    - cecja 6y ago
      Every messaging app above a critical user threshold, yes.
mindslight 6y ago
It bothers me that you've swapped the coasts of the telcos from their traditional regions.