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Let's not create an either-or strawman for either side on this issue. The fact of the matter is - there has always been and always will be a convenience/libert

Let's not create an either-or strawman for either side on this issue. The fact of the matter is - there has always been and always will be a convenience/liberty <---> safety tradeoff. This is a spectrum. We can all disagree with each other on where the right place is to draw the line on the spectrum - but it is ridiculous to imply that reasonable people can't have drawn their line (for good reasons) in a different place than you.

macintux 6y ago
I agree, but a statement like "I value my personal liberty over all else" is not about finding a reasonable tradeoff. Furthermore, following that up with "even if science says it increases my risk of contracting a serious virus" means it's not about valuing the health and safety of others, just yourself.
- tertius 6y ago
  I don't think you're following. You have probably drawn this line in similar areas in life yourself but were probably not thoughtful about it because the media wasn't shaming you into it.
- rwcarlsen 6y ago
  So he draws his line in a different place. Perhaps he didn't do his full position justice. Maybe he feels like the lost human connection, dress code for your face, forced shutdown of certain businesses, school closures (and online learning) are costs that are not worth the benefit we get. I could hardly blame him. The online communities I follow often seem to be overwhelmingly in support of stricter mitigations, etc. Maybe he feels like he's been yelling into the wind for too long to keep up the nuanced discussions. For me personally, I likely feel similar to him. From all the data I've seen - the vast majority of people - especially the workforce - have very little to worry about personally. The small (but not negligible) fraction of people that have increased risk can often reasonable take their own appropriate extra precautions. Then there is the even smaller fraction that can't reasonable take the precautions that they feel they need - those are the people we should work to support directly. We should be able to do this without broad, sweeping measures that are just completely not necessary for the direct benefit of most people.

macintux 6y ago

I agree, but a statement like "I value my personal liberty over all else" is not about finding a reasonable tradeoff. Furthermore, following that up with "even if science says it increases my risk of contracting a serious virus" means it's not about valuing the health and safety of others, just yourself.

tertius 6y ago
I don't think you're following. You have probably drawn this line in similar areas in life yourself but were probably not thoughtful about it because the media wasn't shaming you into it.
rwcarlsen 6y ago
So he draws his line in a different place. Perhaps he didn't do his full position justice. Maybe he feels like the lost human connection, dress code for your face, forced shutdown of certain businesses, school closures (and online learning) are costs that are not worth the benefit we get. I could hardly blame him. The online communities I follow often seem to be overwhelmingly in support of stricter mitigations, etc. Maybe he feels like he's been yelling into the wind for too long to keep up the nuanced discussions. For me personally, I likely feel similar to him. From all the data I've seen - the vast majority of people - especially the workforce - have very little to worry about personally. The small (but not negligible) fraction of people that have increased risk can often reasonable take their own appropriate extra precautions. Then there is the even smaller fraction that can't reasonable take the precautions that they feel they need - those are the people we should work to support directly. We should be able to do this without broad, sweeping measures that are just completely not necessary for the direct benefit of most people.