3 ms·

As someone who attended one of the schools mentioned (in the non-paywalled portion of the article), it's absolutely true that there were (when I attended, and a

As someone who attended one of the schools mentioned (in the non-paywalled portion of the article), it's absolutely true that there were (when I attended, and as I understand it, continues to be) few black and hispanic students. Which is certainly not representative of the locality. That said, it seems to me that the problem isn't that the schools are selective (via a standardized test). In fact, that's kind of the point of such schools. Do we just put everyone in honors classes at every school? No. Why not? Obviously that's discriminatory right? Of course not. There are a variety of reasons why fewer black and hispanic kids end up in these schools. They include, but are not limited to: 1. Schools in poorer areas have fewer resources; 2. Schools in poorer areas are less likely to groom kids for more selective high schools; 3. Schools in poorer areas tend to be dumping grounds for less effective teachers; 4. Poorer families have fewer resources to spend on expensive prep courses/tutoring; 5. Schools in poorer areas tend to have less parental involvement and less pressure to improve teaching and the level of expectation for students -- leading to a fewer kids in those schools being encouraged to even attempt to go to more selective high schools; There are many other reasons as well. The solution, to my mind, is to improve the quality of education, level of expectation, resources to prepare for the entry examinations and encouragement from teachers and school staff to strive for such outcomes. Better teachers would be a good idea as well. Improving the performance of all students should be the goal, with a side benefit of more students being accepted to to more selective schools. IMHO, there is absolutely an ethnic/socioeconomic bias issue here. However, that issue lies in the quality of elementary and middle school education, not the selectivity of selective high schools.

wahern 6y ago
> Do we just put everyone in honors classes at every school? No. Why not? Obviously that's discriminatory right? Of course not. At least in San Francisco there is a movement to remove options like honors classes, and it stems from the same basic, ill-conceived premises. And regarding your list of reasons for poor performance, at least in San Francisco none of them really apply. They don't apply because they've each been systematically addressed, and addressed quite well, yet the huge performance gap remains. At the end of the day, the most significant factors by a huge margin involve home environment, particularly parental involvement and expectations, and you can't address those very well with school policies. And while clearly a major issue there is economic, it's not just economics. I remember visiting Singapore and seeing young, elementary school-age children from families in public housing hanging out in groups at McDonald's doing homework at 8PM. No parental supervision at all, and doubtless some of their parents--both of them--were working 12+ hour days, anyhow. American kids of any ethnicity, rich or poor, aren't going to do that, but it goes to show that there's also a significant cultural component as well. And simply mixing socioeconomic classes in school won't fix that because in American culture the middle- and upper-classes hide their educational norms. They hide them because studying isn't cool. So all poor kids see are the results, not the process. As someone who grew up without those norms it was very confusing to me. I never understood why kids who never seemed to study got such great grades, but as an adult I know why--it's because they were more-or-less studying secretly. (Some of them were trading notes secretly, and even cheating secretly, but it's the same basic point--it's an invisible system that poor kids can't adopt by osmosis and modeling, which is the basic premise behind these movements.)
- esyir 6y ago
  It seems to me that the fundamental issue here is that Americans as a whole don't value education. The upper and middle classes might, but the lower classes and the younger segments of the population
  - wahern 6y ago
    Absolutely. Conservative objections to many of these programs are almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy--they fail precisely because as a society Americans don't value education. This is more true today than ever as poor and working-class American culture has become, at least superficially, the dominate culture. That culture values immediacy, not only in pleasure but far more consequentially in the fruits of labor.

wahern 6y ago

> Do we just put everyone in honors classes at every school? No. Why not? Obviously that's discriminatory right? Of course not. At least in San Francisco there is a movement to remove options like honors classes, and it stems from the same basic, ill-conceived premises. And regarding your list of reasons for poor performance, at least in San Francisco none of them really apply. They don't apply because they've each been systematically addressed, and addressed quite well, yet the huge performance gap remains. At the end of the day, the most significant factors by a huge margin involve home environment, particularly parental involvement and expectations, and you can't address those very well with school policies. And while clearly a major issue there is economic, it's not just economics. I remember visiting Singapore and seeing young, elementary school-age children from families in public housing hanging out in groups at McDonald's doing homework at 8PM. No parental supervision at all, and doubtless some of their parents--both of them--were working 12+ hour days, anyhow. American kids of any ethnicity, rich or poor, aren't going to do that, but it goes to show that there's also a significant cultural component as well. And simply mixing socioeconomic classes in school won't fix that because in American culture the middle- and upper-classes hide their educational norms. They hide them because studying isn't cool. So all poor kids see are the results, not the process. As someone who grew up without those norms it was very confusing to me. I never understood why kids who never seemed to study got such great grades, but as an adult I know why--it's because they were more-or-less studying secretly. (Some of them were trading notes secretly, and even cheating secretly, but it's the same basic point--it's an invisible system that poor kids can't adopt by osmosis and modeling, which is the basic premise behind these movements.)

esyir 6y ago
It seems to me that the fundamental issue here is that Americans as a whole don't value education. The upper and middle classes might, but the lower classes and the younger segments of the population
- wahern 6y ago
  Absolutely. Conservative objections to many of these programs are almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy--they fail precisely because as a society Americans don't value education. This is more true today than ever as poor and working-class American culture has become, at least superficially, the dominate culture. That culture values immediacy, not only in pleasure but far more consequentially in the fruits of labor.