4 ms·

I was planning to argue with this, but I only feel sorry that you see something as historically useful as unionising in such a light.

renewiltord 6y ago
Thanks for sharing your position in any case. Historic anti-immigrant stances by America's biggest unions are close to why I feel this way.
- AshWolfy 6y ago
  What about unions like the UFW which were among the greatest champions of immigrant rights in the US. The accepted line in unions these days is anti immigration efforts divide workers
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    That's right. These days. Could change again. But they could demonstrate immutable faith by adopting a clause like what I mention here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25284296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25284296 If they are pro immigrant it shouldn't be much of a problem.
    - AshWolfy 6y ago
      Well you could get involved in the labor movement to make sure that doesnt happen, after all unions are democratic. Unions turning against immigration is very unlikely, even relatively conservative unions like the teamsters are on board now today being pro immigration is being pro union and being anti immigration is being anti union
      - renewiltord 6y ago
        What is your opinion as to the likelihood of your union adopting the poison pill that I mentioned above? Do you personally find it convincing that unions that are anti-xenophobic should have poison pills that protect against them becoming vehicles for xenophobia?
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        Your obsession with a poison pill is quite bewildering, because you're constructing an elaborately implausible scenario where: 1. union power is increased (let alone maximized to pre-70s levels) in the United States 2. the software industry is unionized 3. the unions turn hard right and start adopting 19th century attitudes towards immigrants In this wildly fantastical situation, would you even say that a poison pill could even do anything against such a reactionary wave? If American society had somehow gone so xenophobic, unions would probably be the last thing we would have to worry about in such a dystopia. Not to mention that any legal fig leaf like your poison pill would be no more protective than a parasol in a tempest. By-the-by, I would suspect that the essential elements of your vaunted "poison pill" is already part of the bylaws and charters of most modern unions. Take the SEIU constitution for instance: https://d3jpbvtfqku4tu.cloudfront.net/img/constitution-2016.pdf?mtime=20161110123031 https://d3jpbvtfqku4tu.cloudfront.net/img/constitution-2016.... > We believe our strength comes from our unity, and that we must not be divided by forces of discrimination based on gender, race, ethnicity, religion, age, physical ability, sexual orientation, or immigration status.
austhrow743 6y ago
Do you think a tech union would be in favour of immigrant labour?
- Ar-Curunir 6y ago
  Depends entirely on the union and who is part of it.

renewiltord 6y ago

Thanks for sharing your position in any case. Historic anti-immigrant stances by America's biggest unions are close to why I feel this way.

AshWolfy 6y ago
What about unions like the UFW which were among the greatest champions of immigrant rights in the US. The accepted line in unions these days is anti immigration efforts divide workers
- renewiltord 6y ago
  That's right. These days. Could change again. But they could demonstrate immutable faith by adopting a clause like what I mention here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25284296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25284296 If they are pro immigrant it shouldn't be much of a problem.
  - AshWolfy 6y ago
    Well you could get involved in the labor movement to make sure that doesnt happen, after all unions are democratic. Unions turning against immigration is very unlikely, even relatively conservative unions like the teamsters are on board now today being pro immigration is being pro union and being anti immigration is being anti union
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      What is your opinion as to the likelihood of your union adopting the poison pill that I mentioned above? Do you personally find it convincing that unions that are anti-xenophobic should have poison pills that protect against them becoming vehicles for xenophobia?
      - Apocryphon 6y ago
        Your obsession with a poison pill is quite bewildering, because you're constructing an elaborately implausible scenario where: 1. union power is increased (let alone maximized to pre-70s levels) in the United States 2. the software industry is unionized 3. the unions turn hard right and start adopting 19th century attitudes towards immigrants In this wildly fantastical situation, would you even say that a poison pill could even do anything against such a reactionary wave? If American society had somehow gone so xenophobic, unions would probably be the last thing we would have to worry about in such a dystopia. Not to mention that any legal fig leaf like your poison pill would be no more protective than a parasol in a tempest. By-the-by, I would suspect that the essential elements of your vaunted "poison pill" is already part of the bylaws and charters of most modern unions. Take the SEIU constitution for instance: https://d3jpbvtfqku4tu.cloudfront.net/img/constitution-2016.pdf?mtime=20161110123031 https://d3jpbvtfqku4tu.cloudfront.net/img/constitution-2016.... > We believe our strength comes from our unity, and that we must not be divided by forces of discrimination based on gender, race, ethnicity, religion, age, physical ability, sexual orientation, or immigration status.

austhrow743 6y ago

Do you think a tech union would be in favour of immigrant labour?

Ar-Curunir 6y ago
Depends entirely on the union and who is part of it.