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>I assume Boeing is desperate to sell these. Or is there something about these planes that makes them unsuitable. It's not like Boeing has a warehouse of 737-M

>I assume Boeing is desperate to sell these. Or is there something about these planes that makes them unsuitable. It's not like Boeing has a warehouse of 737-MAX's sitting around. They are ordered and delivered as they are finished.

MattGaiser 6y ago
Boeing has a years long backlog of orders. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-wins-zero-new-orders-delivers-few-jets-and-loses-more-737-maxs/#:~:text=So%20far%20this%20year%2C%20Boeing,A320neo%20family%20is%205%2C956%20jets https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boein....
- fred_is_fred 6y ago
  Interesting - so the airlines that didn't cancel just assumed that they were far enough down the list that Boeing would figure it out and passengers would forget? I'd be asking for a discount for sure - especially since commercial airlines are hurting for cash.
  - gsnedders 6y ago
    What would be the airline's alternative plan? The A320neo family has a multi-year backlog of orders, so you'd be delaying your aircraft replacement. Keep flying older 737 NGs? Then your competitors can beat you on costs due to lower fuel burn. That all said, Boeing is liable for penalties due to late delivery of many (most?) aircraft.
    - fred_is_fred 6y ago
      A couple questions here - I am assuming that planes are only at 50% usage now, so they obviously age but less hours right? Does that change how long they are kept so that you need less replacements?
      - gsnedders 6y ago
        So there's two limits to most commercial aircraft: one of the number of pressurisation cycles the airframe goes through, and the other is number of flight hours. Typically it's the former that's the limit run into in practice. Clearly the fact that fewer aircraft are flying increases the lifespan of those aircraft (assuming they aren't scrapped or inappropriately stored!). But that's often not the only concern the airlines have: some airlines pride themselves on having a fleet of relatively new aircraft, fuel is a significant cost and can be a significant incentive to replace aircraft with more efficient ones regardless of age (especially if you have competitors on the same routes with more efficient aircraft), time out of service due to maintenance (at some point having the aircraft out of service for a couple of months with a large bill due just isn't worth it versus replacement, and aircraft maintenance is mostly done on a time basis so the clock is still ticking). Delaying aircraft replacement by a couple of years due to 737 MAX delays is almost certainly viable, but delaying replacement by 5+ years to instead order A320neos is harder, and delaying replacement by 10+ years if you want to push Boeing to replace the 737 is likely implausible.
banana_giraffe 6y ago
https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/boeing-gets-good-and-bad-news-on-its-grounded-737-max-plane https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/boeing-gets-good-and-... They do have a bunch sitting around. So much they had to hire people to care for them.
- aphextron 6y ago
  These are grounded airline fleets, not Boeing inventory.
  - banana_giraffe 6y ago
    Yep, sorry, didn't meant to suggest otherwise, just fascinating to me.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> It's not like Boeing has a warehouse of 737-MAX's sitting around. Actually there's a total of almost 800 grounded 737 MAX airplanes: - Boeing has 400 undelivered and parked around their factory. - customers owned almost 400 grounded planes. The backstory is that Boeing contracted with Spirit Aaerosystems to make the fuselages, and Spirit continued making and delivering them long after the grounding. > They are ordered and delivered as they are finished. Sure, when there's a backorder of certified aircraft, not when your product is uncertified and nobody wants any. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/01/boeing-737-max-spirit-aerosystems-cuts-1100-jobs-due-to-coronavirus.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/01/boeing-737-max-spirit-aerosy...

MattGaiser 6y ago

Boeing has a years long backlog of orders. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-wins-zero-new-orders-delivers-few-jets-and-loses-more-737-maxs/#:~:text=So%20far%20this%20year%2C%20Boeing,A320neo%20family%20is%205%2C956%20jets https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boein....

fred_is_fred 6y ago
Interesting - so the airlines that didn't cancel just assumed that they were far enough down the list that Boeing would figure it out and passengers would forget? I'd be asking for a discount for sure - especially since commercial airlines are hurting for cash.
- gsnedders 6y ago
  What would be the airline's alternative plan? The A320neo family has a multi-year backlog of orders, so you'd be delaying your aircraft replacement. Keep flying older 737 NGs? Then your competitors can beat you on costs due to lower fuel burn. That all said, Boeing is liable for penalties due to late delivery of many (most?) aircraft.
  - fred_is_fred 6y ago
    A couple questions here - I am assuming that planes are only at 50% usage now, so they obviously age but less hours right? Does that change how long they are kept so that you need less replacements?
    - gsnedders 6y ago
      So there's two limits to most commercial aircraft: one of the number of pressurisation cycles the airframe goes through, and the other is number of flight hours. Typically it's the former that's the limit run into in practice. Clearly the fact that fewer aircraft are flying increases the lifespan of those aircraft (assuming they aren't scrapped or inappropriately stored!). But that's often not the only concern the airlines have: some airlines pride themselves on having a fleet of relatively new aircraft, fuel is a significant cost and can be a significant incentive to replace aircraft with more efficient ones regardless of age (especially if you have competitors on the same routes with more efficient aircraft), time out of service due to maintenance (at some point having the aircraft out of service for a couple of months with a large bill due just isn't worth it versus replacement, and aircraft maintenance is mostly done on a time basis so the clock is still ticking). Delaying aircraft replacement by a couple of years due to 737 MAX delays is almost certainly viable, but delaying replacement by 5+ years to instead order A320neos is harder, and delaying replacement by 10+ years if you want to push Boeing to replace the 737 is likely implausible.

banana_giraffe 6y ago

https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/boeing-gets-good-and-bad-news-on-its-grounded-737-max-plane https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/boeing-gets-good-and-... They do have a bunch sitting around. So much they had to hire people to care for them.

aphextron 6y ago
These are grounded airline fleets, not Boeing inventory.
- banana_giraffe 6y ago
  Yep, sorry, didn't meant to suggest otherwise, just fascinating to me.

redis_mlc 6y ago

> It's not like Boeing has a warehouse of 737-MAX's sitting around. Actually there's a total of almost 800 grounded 737 MAX airplanes: - Boeing has 400 undelivered and parked around their factory. - customers owned almost 400 grounded planes. The backstory is that Boeing contracted with Spirit Aaerosystems to make the fuselages, and Spirit continued making and delivering them long after the grounding. > They are ordered and delivered as they are finished. Sure, when there's a backorder of certified aircraft, not when your product is uncertified and nobody wants any. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/01/boeing-737-max-spirit-aerosystems-cuts-1100-jobs-due-to-coronavirus.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/01/boeing-737-max-spirit-aerosy...