5 ms·

It sounds legally like coercian. There are some porn producers who are going to jail for a very long time (their whole life) over this. Recruit girls for a phot

It sounds legally like coercian. There are some porn producers who are going to jail for a very long time (their whole life) over this. Recruit girls for a photoshoot, tell them a couple days out that it's a porn shoot but it's for private collections, etc. When the girls arrive they're railroaded into signing documents, in a strange city with no money in their pocket, etc.

DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
I'm surprised that the parent post was downvoted, because AFAICT it's a valid comparison. Is there something I'm missing?
- cj 6y ago
  In the context of starting a job at Google, I highly doubt you sign your employment contracts the day you show up for work. Typically employment contracts are signed and settled well before you enter the building as an employee. I would be surprised if the OP’s anecdote regarding the Googler pulled on the 1st day is in line with reality. Edit: apparently I’m wrong, the downvotes were deserved! I run hiring at my company and we send people all contracts at the same time that we send the offer letter. No surprise paperwork on Day 1. I’m surprised to hear other companies wait until the start date to sort out legal
  - gwillen 6y ago
    I was hired right out of school by Google in 2007. I was absolutely presented with various contract documents on day 1 to sign. In fact, I was not even given paper copies of them; I was supposed to click my agreement in an intranet signing tool. (I couldn't say what fraction of my employment paperwork was handled in this way, but things like IP assignment were definitely included.)
    - philsnow 6y ago
      At one of my first jobs, one of the things I had to agree to was having read "the employee handbook".. but it was not a pdf or other document, it was part of an internal wiki or something, with in-links and out-links all over the place. I don't recall if I tried to figure out whether the strongly connected component that comprised the handbook was the same as "all pages on the wiki", but I was a little distressed at the time (this being one of my first jobs) that I was being asked to sign my name on something that I couldn't realistically read.
      - buran77 6y ago
        There's always a price to pay for all the innovation that happens in SV. It's just that it ends up being paid by the people rather than by the companies. Companies can afford to pay for the most exclusive of bodyguards, the government.
    - discordance 6y ago
      That’s quite reminiscent of the user experience Google’s customers go through with the TOS
    - sxp 6y ago
      When I was hired by Google in 2010, I was sent physical papers to sign and return. I distinctly remember this because Google mailedthe papers to my old address from my first application rather than my 2010 address so I had to drive to my family member's house to get papers on a Friday and send them back by Monday. I still have email copies of the contracts which they sent in parallel. This includes General Hiring Contract & Salary and a standard NDA with California Section 2870 modification.
  - benlivengood 6y ago
    The only paperwork I saw in 2014 before my first day was an offer letter (no contract per se; CA is an at-will state), NDA, relocation offer (always ask for one; it's rarely offered) and a list to fill out of prior inventions. The rest does get signed in noogler orientation. The benefits (to Google) of being a giant company with at-will employment.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    That's pretty normal, at least in tech in CA. Every job I've taken in the past 15 years has had documents I was required to sign on my first day as a condition of starting employment. Most also had some other documents I had to sign to accept the offer, but those were not comprehensive.
  - thelastwave 6y ago
    You seem like you have not had a lot of real job experience.
    - cj 6y ago
      You’re right, I’ve only had a few jobs in my life. But I have hired dozens of people - everyone I’ve hired received their contracts the same day they receive an offer. Very surprised this isn’t common practice.
      - ACow_Adonis 6y ago
        if it's worth anything, I'm NOT in the US, and I generally take the position that I don't even have a job until everything is signed (that is to say, sent to me, reviewed, signed, sent back and receipt acknowledged). That action would include resettlement compensation if inclusive, or at the very least I wouldn't consider seriously starting the mechanisation of moving cities until that point. I'm pretty taken aback to learn how culturally common this behaviour seems to be in this context given the feedback... before this thread I would have said it's a red-flag for a scam and walk away at that point...
        GoblinSlayer 6y ago
        It's the same slave contract everywhere, what's the difference when you sign it?
        croon 6y ago
        1) You're claiming it's the same contract everywhere, which is not true, so your second point is moot. 2) Even if it was true, the when would change it. If more people can preemptively compare contracts, the more they would change for the better. I'd rather pick out a life jacket that fits me before I jump in the water, rather than whatever one is reachable when I'm already there.
  - _jal 6y ago
    It is pretty normal in SV to not see your actual contract before you start. I think I have only ever signed one ahead of time, and that was an unusual situation in other ways. (Normal, not right. And I started working here in the early 90s.)
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - square_usual 6y ago
    (Not Google) My first job out of college I was asked to sign quite a bit of paperwork on my first day, after I had relocated to their city.
  - nmfisher 6y ago
    This does happen regularly, and employees should never do it (for precisely this reason). Don't quit your job, move cities, etc etc without a signed contract.
    - astura 6y ago
      What good is that if you're an "at-will" employee? They can just change the rules at any time for any reason and fire you if you don't agree to them. I have enough experience to know absolutely nothing about me employer is guaranteed/permanent in the US. Relevant story for the HN crowd: I worked for a small company (~250 employees). Real chill place. Six months after I start they were suddenly bought out by a huge multinational corporation. First order of business is everyone needs to sign a non-disclosure agreement and an agreement that the company owns all the code you write while employed with them, even if you do it on your own time. There were some people who were reluctant to sign, it was made extremely clear that if they didn't sign they would be unemployed. That one didn't bother me, I only code at work anyway. What did bother me was at another employer right after I became eligible for the employer's (generous) match on my 401(k) (after 1 year employment) an email went out a few weeks later saying "Sorry, we won't be matching 401k contributions anymore." I know a guy (very senior engineer) who negotiated that he would be working from home 3-4 days a week before taking a new job. Employer agreed. Few months later line manager notices that employee is not logged into whatever work chat they use in the middle of the day. Not habitually, once. Next day it was announced that there will be no more working from home.
      - nmfisher 6y ago
        I mean, I completely agree with you. As a non-American, the concept of "at-will" employment is utterly bizarre to me. But, as a matter of practicality, it's less likely that, after you've signed your contract, Google comes to you on your first day and says "I'm altering the terms of our deal, pray I don't alter it further". This is all mostly about managing unexpected risks, and my point is that it's actually pretty common for contracts to contain/omit clauses that you really take issue with. I'm just saying it's prudent to know what you're getting yourself into before you up stakes and move cities.
  - gwillen 6y ago
    As one of the people who gave a counterexample, let me just say that I don't support people downvoting you, and I would much rather live in your reality than this one. (Thank you for treating your employees better than most.)

DoofusOfDeath 6y ago

I'm surprised that the parent post was downvoted, because AFAICT it's a valid comparison. Is there something I'm missing?

cj 6y ago
In the context of starting a job at Google, I highly doubt you sign your employment contracts the day you show up for work. Typically employment contracts are signed and settled well before you enter the building as an employee. I would be surprised if the OP’s anecdote regarding the Googler pulled on the 1st day is in line with reality. Edit: apparently I’m wrong, the downvotes were deserved! I run hiring at my company and we send people all contracts at the same time that we send the offer letter. No surprise paperwork on Day 1. I’m surprised to hear other companies wait until the start date to sort out legal
- gwillen 6y ago
  I was hired right out of school by Google in 2007. I was absolutely presented with various contract documents on day 1 to sign. In fact, I was not even given paper copies of them; I was supposed to click my agreement in an intranet signing tool. (I couldn't say what fraction of my employment paperwork was handled in this way, but things like IP assignment were definitely included.)
  - philsnow 6y ago
    At one of my first jobs, one of the things I had to agree to was having read "the employee handbook".. but it was not a pdf or other document, it was part of an internal wiki or something, with in-links and out-links all over the place. I don't recall if I tried to figure out whether the strongly connected component that comprised the handbook was the same as "all pages on the wiki", but I was a little distressed at the time (this being one of my first jobs) that I was being asked to sign my name on something that I couldn't realistically read.
    - buran77 6y ago
      There's always a price to pay for all the innovation that happens in SV. It's just that it ends up being paid by the people rather than by the companies. Companies can afford to pay for the most exclusive of bodyguards, the government.
  - discordance 6y ago
    That’s quite reminiscent of the user experience Google’s customers go through with the TOS
  - sxp 6y ago
    When I was hired by Google in 2010, I was sent physical papers to sign and return. I distinctly remember this because Google mailedthe papers to my old address from my first application rather than my 2010 address so I had to drive to my family member's house to get papers on a Friday and send them back by Monday. I still have email copies of the contracts which they sent in parallel. This includes General Hiring Contract & Salary and a standard NDA with California Section 2870 modification.
- benlivengood 6y ago
  The only paperwork I saw in 2014 before my first day was an offer letter (no contract per se; CA is an at-will state), NDA, relocation offer (always ask for one; it's rarely offered) and a list to fill out of prior inventions. The rest does get signed in noogler orientation. The benefits (to Google) of being a giant company with at-will employment.
- kelnos 6y ago
  That's pretty normal, at least in tech in CA. Every job I've taken in the past 15 years has had documents I was required to sign on my first day as a condition of starting employment. Most also had some other documents I had to sign to accept the offer, but those were not comprehensive.
- thelastwave 6y ago
  You seem like you have not had a lot of real job experience.
  - cj 6y ago
    You’re right, I’ve only had a few jobs in my life. But I have hired dozens of people - everyone I’ve hired received their contracts the same day they receive an offer. Very surprised this isn’t common practice.
    - ACow_Adonis 6y ago
      if it's worth anything, I'm NOT in the US, and I generally take the position that I don't even have a job until everything is signed (that is to say, sent to me, reviewed, signed, sent back and receipt acknowledged). That action would include resettlement compensation if inclusive, or at the very least I wouldn't consider seriously starting the mechanisation of moving cities until that point. I'm pretty taken aback to learn how culturally common this behaviour seems to be in this context given the feedback... before this thread I would have said it's a red-flag for a scam and walk away at that point...
      - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
        It's the same slave contract everywhere, what's the difference when you sign it?
        croon 6y ago
        1) You're claiming it's the same contract everywhere, which is not true, so your second point is moot. 2) Even if it was true, the when would change it. If more people can preemptively compare contracts, the more they would change for the better. I'd rather pick out a life jacket that fits me before I jump in the water, rather than whatever one is reachable when I'm already there.
- _jal 6y ago
  It is pretty normal in SV to not see your actual contract before you start. I think I have only ever signed one ahead of time, and that was an unusual situation in other ways. (Normal, not right. And I started working here in the early 90s.)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- square_usual 6y ago
  (Not Google) My first job out of college I was asked to sign quite a bit of paperwork on my first day, after I had relocated to their city.
- nmfisher 6y ago
  This does happen regularly, and employees should never do it (for precisely this reason). Don't quit your job, move cities, etc etc without a signed contract.
  - astura 6y ago
    What good is that if you're an "at-will" employee? They can just change the rules at any time for any reason and fire you if you don't agree to them. I have enough experience to know absolutely nothing about me employer is guaranteed/permanent in the US. Relevant story for the HN crowd: I worked for a small company (~250 employees). Real chill place. Six months after I start they were suddenly bought out by a huge multinational corporation. First order of business is everyone needs to sign a non-disclosure agreement and an agreement that the company owns all the code you write while employed with them, even if you do it on your own time. There were some people who were reluctant to sign, it was made extremely clear that if they didn't sign they would be unemployed. That one didn't bother me, I only code at work anyway. What did bother me was at another employer right after I became eligible for the employer's (generous) match on my 401(k) (after 1 year employment) an email went out a few weeks later saying "Sorry, we won't be matching 401k contributions anymore." I know a guy (very senior engineer) who negotiated that he would be working from home 3-4 days a week before taking a new job. Employer agreed. Few months later line manager notices that employee is not logged into whatever work chat they use in the middle of the day. Not habitually, once. Next day it was announced that there will be no more working from home.
    - nmfisher 6y ago
      I mean, I completely agree with you. As a non-American, the concept of "at-will" employment is utterly bizarre to me. But, as a matter of practicality, it's less likely that, after you've signed your contract, Google comes to you on your first day and says "I'm altering the terms of our deal, pray I don't alter it further". This is all mostly about managing unexpected risks, and my point is that it's actually pretty common for contracts to contain/omit clauses that you really take issue with. I'm just saying it's prudent to know what you're getting yourself into before you up stakes and move cities.
- gwillen 6y ago
  As one of the people who gave a counterexample, let me just say that I don't support people downvoting you, and I would much rather live in your reality than this one. (Thank you for treating your employees better than most.)