4 ms·

I'd like to see a study on alcohol addiction that shows that all or some specific alcoholic drinks are as addictive as heroin.

GavinMcG 6y ago
The comment said that it ruins lives just as effectively, not that it's as addictive. Two things don't need to be equally strong or powerful to each get the job done.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  That's an interesting distinction. Many people drink in moderation quite successfully without ever being addicted and without ruining their life. How many people successfully maintain a moderate heroin habit?
  - CadellFastro 6y ago
    The distinction, at least to me, comes from the fact that alcohol is more prevalent, and even though the rate of addiction may be lower, still harms more lives given the much larger population of people who consume alcohol.
- CadellFastro 6y ago
  That is exactly my point. Additionally, if you do want to look at things statistically, alcoholism is far more prevalent, at least in the United States, than heroin. In terms of raw number, alcoholism affects are larger range of people and arguably therefore destroys more lives.
  - Miraste 6y ago
    That's hardly a correct comparison. Alcohol is far more readily available and accepted than heroin.
    - CadellFastro 6y ago
      Hence, if you consider the effect on the entire using population, alcohol has a greater potential for damage considering its greater availability. Heroin is a bomb. Alcohol is fireworks. One is legal, and arguably less dangerous, but there are far more fireworks injuries in the ER than bomb injuries.
leetcrew 6y ago
"addictive" is not exactly the same as "effectively ruins lives". cigarettes are highly addictive, but they don't really ruin people's lives in the same way as alcohol/heroin.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
RickS 6y ago
Not about addictiveness, but about overall social harm: alcohol beats out heroin. > MCDA modelling showed that heroin, crack cocaine, and metamfetamine were the most harmful drugs to individuals (part scores 34, 37, and 32, respectively), whereas alcohol, heroin, and crack cocaine were the most harmful to others (46, 21, and 17, respectively). Overall, alcohol was the most harmful drug (overall harm score 72), with heroin (55) and crack cocaine (54) in second and third places. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2961462-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... Of the myriad drugs I've taken, alcohol is the least deserving of ready availability IMO. I suspect that if it were invented post 1950, and not so ancient and ingrained in our culture, there's no way we would let people buy the stuff.
0-_-0 6y ago
Depends on the definition. E.g. alcohol withdrawal can kill you, heroin withdrawal can't.

GavinMcG 6y ago

The comment said that it ruins lives just as effectively, not that it's as addictive. Two things don't need to be equally strong or powerful to each get the job done.

rootusrootus 6y ago
That's an interesting distinction. Many people drink in moderation quite successfully without ever being addicted and without ruining their life. How many people successfully maintain a moderate heroin habit?
- CadellFastro 6y ago
  The distinction, at least to me, comes from the fact that alcohol is more prevalent, and even though the rate of addiction may be lower, still harms more lives given the much larger population of people who consume alcohol.
CadellFastro 6y ago
That is exactly my point. Additionally, if you do want to look at things statistically, alcoholism is far more prevalent, at least in the United States, than heroin. In terms of raw number, alcoholism affects are larger range of people and arguably therefore destroys more lives.
- Miraste 6y ago
  That's hardly a correct comparison. Alcohol is far more readily available and accepted than heroin.
  - CadellFastro 6y ago
    Hence, if you consider the effect on the entire using population, alcohol has a greater potential for damage considering its greater availability. Heroin is a bomb. Alcohol is fireworks. One is legal, and arguably less dangerous, but there are far more fireworks injuries in the ER than bomb injuries.

leetcrew 6y ago

"addictive" is not exactly the same as "effectively ruins lives". cigarettes are highly addictive, but they don't really ruin people's lives in the same way as alcohol/heroin.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

RickS 6y ago

Not about addictiveness, but about overall social harm: alcohol beats out heroin. > MCDA modelling showed that heroin, crack cocaine, and metamfetamine were the most harmful drugs to individuals (part scores 34, 37, and 32, respectively), whereas alcohol, heroin, and crack cocaine were the most harmful to others (46, 21, and 17, respectively). Overall, alcohol was the most harmful drug (overall harm score 72), with heroin (55) and crack cocaine (54) in second and third places. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2961462-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... Of the myriad drugs I've taken, alcohol is the least deserving of ready availability IMO. I suspect that if it were invented post 1950, and not so ancient and ingrained in our culture, there's no way we would let people buy the stuff.

0-_-0 6y ago

Depends on the definition. E.g. alcohol withdrawal can kill you, heroin withdrawal can't.