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A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old
- m3kw9 6y agoAnyone tried it?
- Cactus2018 6y ago100 comments, and no on yet. Link to reviews on google maps https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ichiwa/@35.0453272,135.7422364,19z/data=!4m10!1m2!3m1!2sIchiwa!3m6!1s0x6001a802cc7708d7:0x6fd1e9e04b1aec1e!8m2!3d35.045327!4d135.7427835!9m1!1b1 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ichiwa/@35.0453272,135.742...
- shagie 6y agohttps://www.visualcapitalist.com/oldest-companies/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/oldest-companies/ is also rather interesting to look at. The oldest one in Japan: > The Japanese temple and shrine construction company, Kongō Gumi Co., Ltd. (founded in 578) has weathered a few storms over the millennia, from nuclear bombs to financial crises. In 2006, it was bought by the construction conglomerate, Takamatsu Construction Group Co., and continues to operate today.
- twic 6y agoThe story is that Kongo Gumi was founded by people who had worked on the first Buddhist temple, but the first Buddhist temple, Hōkō-ji, wasn't started until 588. Not sure exactly what's going on there, someone should check the paperwork. Canterbury Cathedral was founded in 597. I find it kind of wild that those two events were only nine years apart.
- bee_rider 6y agoThat seems like a rare reason for the story to seem suspicious. Predating the religion that they mostly work for. I bet they started out as a general purpose carpentry/construction company (I mean it was 588, they probably didn't need civil engineering licenses), and specialized to what what was getting them money. "Not sure if this new religion will work out, but we could always go back to making tables" - Them, probably.
- pvarangot 6y agoAm I the only one thinking that nuclear bombings are actually good for a construction company? It's like saying the condom industry survived the AIDS pandemic.
- neonate 6y agohttps://archive.is/2JZ14 https://archive.is/2JZ14
- nikk1 6y agoRelated, recent article: https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200211-why-are-so-many-old-companies-in-japan https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200211-why-are-so-man...
- kstrauser 6y agoWell, crud. I honestly thought a 10-bit `company_age` field would be sufficient. I'll add a Pivotal story to make the database migration.
- danielheath 6y agoPut it in the icebox, we won’t need that for years.
- kstrauser 6y agoGood point. We have an open req for a data engineer, so I'm sure it'll be fine.
- kbelder 6y agoLeave it, store the 11th bit in the top bit of the first byte of the company name. That'll future proof us.
- tvb12 6y agoI played a game that implemented something like this. A player could have 32 buffs simultaneously, and on release there were fewer than 255 unique buffs. The id for each buff was stored in one byte and was bundled along with all of the other buffs into a much larger packet which also contained other player data. The game later surpassed 255 unique buffs. Rather than change the packet structure, they repurposed a group of 64 bits which had previously been padding. Each buff id could then be unpacked by using the nth pair of bits from the block of 64 as the two high bits, and tacking on the original byte as the lower eight.
- pishpash 6y agoOr use compression, people used to do that.
- r3trohack3r 6y ago
- NikolaeVarius 6y agoI heard a story about some restaurant or hotel where a owner apologized for not providing the authentic experience because the original shop burned down like 600 years ago
- bovermyer 6y agoSomeday I hope to own my own little pub, free and clear, and just do that for the rest of my life. It wouldn't be stress-free, but I enjoyed my time working in a bar, and I like the idea of operating a little community hub.
- Complexicate 6y agoAs someone who (finally) went from employee to small business owner, I wouldn't wait for "someday". Start the process while you're still working now. Take the time to learn everything you can to make this happen over the next couple of years. "Free and clear" stops a lot of people, but it's not as important as knowing how to scale up and down so your cash flow is always above paying your debts. There will be balancing acts whether you own the building or not. Figure out the minimum sales you need to survive, and plan the maximum size you can grow to. You can start toward "free and clear" by negotiating a "lease with the option to buy". Considering recent situations, hire a lawyer to put contingencies on rent in case of government mandated shutdowns or reductions. If this is truly a dream of yours, don't wait. Start looking at locations and gathering information.
- dkural 6y agoSometimes the dreaming is sweeter than the doing. Why ruin a perfectly fine fantasy?
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoI for one will continue to dream about winning the lottery and owning a bigger house. No clue what I'd do if I never had to work again though, I'd probably find some kind of employment anyway to keep busy.
- greggman3 6y agoIf you'd like running a pub well, thank you for being that person. Seriously I'm glad some people want to do it. Me, I remember the first time I was sure I didn't want to do that. I met a lady running a bar/restaurant/hub. It was clear her life was the place. It was open nights so she was there every night. It had lots of events. No more free nights for her, going out with friends, dancing, dinning etc. Her nights, while she did get to greet people, were mostly running around the place putting out fires. I'm not dissing that life at all. If she enjoys it that's great. It's not for me in the same way I'm sure staring at a computer screen is not for her.
- Michael_Sieb 6y agoI don't think any tech companies will ever survive that long.
- Axsuul 6y agoIsn't history being written everyday?
- lapetitejort 6y agoCould Nintendo be the oldest company currently involved with tech?
- geogra4 6y ago'tech' is kind of a broad brush. But Nintendo is even older than old behemoths like GE and IBM.
- seattletech 6y agoYep, IBM was founded in 1911
- Turing_Machine 6y agoIts constituent companies were older, though. Hollerith's original Tabulating Machine patent was filed in 1884, and his machines and punch cards were used for the 1890 census.
- tpmx 6y agoDefine "tech"? Nintendo was founded in 1889. As just one counter-example; I'm sure there are plenty more/earlier: Siemens was founded in 1847 (edit: by building telegraph equipment and infrastructure). Edit: I'm sure there must have been earlier companies involved in "tech" that are still relevant? Maybe let's think about "tech" as "information technology" companies?
- 6y ago
- flobosg 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies
- Axsuul 6y agoThe kicker is at the end. Should future generations be obligated to continue the family business even if they resent it?
- NikolaeVarius 6y agoThats what adopting full grown adults as sons is for.
- Axsuul 6y agoYellowstone (TV show) reference? :)
- NikolaeVarius 6y agoNo thats what they literally do https://freakonomics.com/2011/08/09/the-church-of-scionology-why-adult-adoption-is-key-to-the-success-of-japanese-family-firms/#:~:text=The%20current%20Japanese%20business%20landscape,rather%20than%20his%20biological%20son https://freakonomics.com/2011/08/09/the-church-of-scionology....
- ch4s3 6y agoNo, that’s just a literal description of how these old Japanese businesses pass themselves along for centuries.
- geogra4 6y agoOddly enough that's also how roman emperors handled dynastic succession[0]. In a world with 40% child mortality, it was more of a sure thing than gambling on having a biological heir. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_in_ancient_Rome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_in_ancient_Rome
- ch4s3 6y agoYeah the “good emperors” did that, but just as often there were coups by the praetorian guard or some general marched down from Gaul.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- raymondrussell 6y agoThis is something https://twitter.com/MagicRealismBot https://twitter.com/MagicRealismBot would say.
- sriram_sun 6y agoDo shops like these mostly inherited? I'm also aware of Japan's adult adoptions. Is there pressure on the next gen. to take over the family business? I would think yes. In my mind, just imagining operating for a Millennium, these institutions are more temples than businesses. Brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. Thankfully the practice is not very widespread as I could easily have found myself taking care of a breakfast place by a moderately busy highway in Southern India.
- jacobwilliamroy 6y agoOh no, owning property and having a place in the community. What a nightmare.
- kiddico 6y agoOr you can read it as "social pressure to do something for your entire life that you don't really want to do."
- iratewizard 6y agoLike work?
- kiddico 6y agoNo, like work you want to do. Imagine everyone around you is allowed the opportunity to choose their career. You however are the son of a plumber, and have no choice but to be a plumber. This plumbing business is 1000 years old! Why throw away the family name?! Well, because I'd rather not be a plumber and I'm perfectly capable of something else.
- ardy42 6y ago> No, like work you want to do. It doesn't work like that for most people. > Imagine everyone around you is allowed the opportunity to choose their career. You however are the son of a plumber, and have no choice but to be a plumber. Many people end up doing something similar to their parents. Maybe you won't be a plumber if your dads is one, but it's far more likely you'd be a blue-collar tradesman than a doctor. It's also far more likely that a doctor's one will become a doctor or a lawyer than an electrician. Also, IMHO, this idea that the path to satisfaction by pursuing some kind of dream profession is a fairy tale.
- nkoren 6y agoDamnit, last year I walked straight past that mochi shop without even realising it. And now I'm hungry. (Seriously, though, the snacking in Kyoto is epic. Lovely temples and all, but when I go back, my first stop will be at a yatsuhashi shop, then mochi, then those red bean fish cake thingies, then maybe a cucumber on a stick. Damnit, now I'm REALLY hungry. Anyhow, these are businesses worth keeping around for a thousand years. They're just that tasty.)
- howlgarnish 6y agoThe oldest restaurant in Nara hasn't changed their menu in 500 years or so: your options are barley rice with grated yam (mugi tororo) or barley rice with broiled eel (unagi). The eel is great. The barley rice with gloopy yam on top... let's just say I understand why nobody else sells this stuff anymore.
- burner831234 6y agoWhat I absolutely love about this comment is that I feel exactly the opposite. Love mugi tororo and cannot figure out how eel is popular at all.
- lostcolony 6y agoAnd here we have why they have two options.
- scsilver 6y agoYou mean the delicious barbequed fish with fatty meat that melts in your mouth doesnt seem like it should be popular? Its like fois gras of the sea.
- wil421 6y agoUnagi should be the freshwater eel but yes tell me more about the fatty meat goodness that’s so delicious.
- cr1895 6y agoThe article lacked any detail on the “honor system” that sustained it for centuries in place of the fixed prices charged post-WWII. What does that mean...pay-what-you-like?
- err4nt 6y agoReally makes you wonder which businesses (and indeed which industries) will exist 1000 years from today! Very inspiring, thanks for sharing.
- geocrasher 6y agoIf the Web Hosting industry still exists in 1000 years, there will be somebody asking if we support Frontpage.
- gravelc 6y agoI bought some great carbon steel knives from a little 1-man shop called Shigeharu in Kyoto a few years back. Supposedly dates from pre-1390. Feels like owning a piece of history. Was very much wondering what would happen to the shop in the future as the owner/knife-maker was quite elderly. https://openkyoto.com/real-kyoto-knives-aritsugu-knives/ https://openkyoto.com/real-kyoto-knives-aritsugu-knives/
- GloriousKoji 6y agoHonestly the shop would just cease to exist. There was a local cake shop and a tofu shop near me that was passed down for generations. Saddly they both ceased to exist in my lifetime as there was no one to inherit the legacy. The cake shop eventually did reopen under new ownership but it's not as good.
- agar 6y agoA colleague took me to Tamahide restaurant in Tokyo, which opened in 1760 and is known for creating oyakodon, a chicken and egg rice bowl. (Oyakadon translates to "parent and child donburi" which somehow makes eating a combination of chicken and egg a little less appealing). Looking at reviews today, people apparently see the food as a mixed bag - some are clearly disappointed. In my opinion, it was excellent, with the signature dish having balanced flavors that seem to have been refined for generations. I found it endlessly fascinating that a humble lunch place with a simple dish could survive for 250+ years - but it also makes perfect sense that simple things last. My colleague (a local in our Japan office) told me that emperors of old had ordered the dish to be delivered to them, well before Japan had even been "opened" to the world. Perhaps the stories were apocryphal (he was a sales guy after all), but still entertaining and gave a sense of the history behind the meal. Tokyo is an amazing city, though it can be very lonely for an expat.
- herodoturtle 6y agoThis was really cool to read, thanks for sharing. I had a similar experience in Greece, where some locals recommended an out of town Gyro shop ("Gyro" is a popular Greek dish, simply put, it's your choice of meat, wrapped or stuffed in a pita, along with ingredients such as tomato, onion, and tzatziki sauce). At a measly 2 euros, it was vastly cheaper than the Gyro shops dotted around the popular hot-spots of the island. And yet it had been open for a very long time indeed.
- echelon 6y ago> Tokyo is an amazing city, though it can be very lonely for an expat. Could you expand upon this? I've been thinking of moving there for a year or two to focus on my language skills and work on my startup. I spent a lot of time in Obihiro, Hokkaido in my late teens and had a blast hanging out at the university. Everyone was super friendly. When I traveled to even more remote towns like Hobetsu / Mukawa, Makubetsu, Ashoro, and Honbetsu, the children would run up to meet me and want to take photos. (They don't see foreigners often.) I never spent much time in Tokyo, but I did spend a lot of time in Shanghai, Changsha, and other big Chinese cities and almost want to consider that a proxy. Why is Tokyo lonely? Is it this city in particular? Is it a certain age range? Post-college and into adulthood does it become lonelier? Also, what's the startup scene like in Tokyo? I'm considering something a few steps beyond VTuber streaming and think Japan would be a great environment to pull talent from.
- mxcrossb 6y ago> The Japanese companies that have endured the longest have often been defined by an aversion to risk — shaped in part by past crises — and an accumulation of large cash reserves. > It is a common trait among Japanese enterprises and part of the reason that the country has so far avoided the high bankruptcy rates of the United States during the pandemic. Even when they “make some profits,” said Tomohiro Ota, an analyst at Goldman Sachs, “they do not increase their capital expenditure.” I found this part very interesting; it seems like Japan’s monetary policy would present a huge disincentive to this.
- 5440 6y agoPlease go to Fugetsu-do mochi, if you are ever in LA. They are 117 yrs/old and follow this Japanese tradition. They need business during COVID. https://www.fugetsu-do.com/ https://www.fugetsu-do.com/
- Sophistifunk 6y agoThis reads like some "noble savage" rubbish about how the Japanese are better than us evil capitalists, but how exactly does one maintain a business in a steady-state for 1000 years when the neighbourhood around you gets gentrified, or the zoning changes, or your city made pension promises it can't keep for council employees so your land tax doubles every 5 years?
- yborg 6y agoDon't do those things? The Japanese were appalled by Europeans when they first encountered them and considered them savages. They may have had a point.
- Ichthypresbyter 6y agoThere are some pretty old businesses in Europe- plenty of English pubs claim to go back to the Middle Ages, and at least some have records to prove it.
- Valkhyr 6y ago> The Japanese companies that have endured the longest have often been defined by an aversion to risk — shaped in part by past crises — and an accumulation of large cash reserves. > It is a common trait among Japanese enterprises and part of the reason that the country has so far avoided the high bankruptcy rates of the United States during the pandemic. I live in Japan (I'm not Japanese). From experience, the first paragraph above rings true for many, especially smaller/family-run, businesses. But jumping to the conclusion in the second paragraph is a stretch. By making such a facile and generalized statement and leaving it at that, the article ignores that the Japanese government's measures since the pandemic started have in many ways prioritized economic health over individual health, and that is one reason why business in general has not been as hard hit here. For instance, Japan actually instituted "Go To Travel" and "Go To Eat" campaigns to stimulate the economy during the pandemic. Criminally irresponsible in my view. Japanese pandemic response has also largely been ignoring the reality of aerosol transmission, evidenced by issuing compliance certifications (basically a sticker businesses can put on their door) even to businesses that promote indoor eating and other activities where safety from aerosol transmission cannot be maintained. In fact, even if the Japanese government wanted to take stronger measures, my understanding is that legally they can't - so there has never been a mandatory lockdown here. All we had was a voluntary lockdown around April. To put it bluntly, Japanese businesses are largely doing well because all cessation of economic activity so far has been completely voluntary, while the government has taken steps that do more to play down the pandemic threat. Conversely, the main reason that the Japanese people are so far doing relatively better than say the US (in spite of the government's best attempts to fail at pandemic policy), seems to be that nearly everybody wears a mask whenever possible. Coupled with a few other social factors such as less talking in public spaces and less physical contact especially between strangers.
- wwweston 6y agoThe US seems determined to prove it can be exceptional: we can have both the negative economic impacts and worse health outcomes.
- veridies 6y agoRelated to this: I've tried to figure out what the oldest surviving organization in the world is (specifically something with some form of rules or decision-making process that has been formally kept and amended over time instead of being replaced by a new code of rules). Best I could do is the Roman Catholic Church, but I feel like my search terms might be missing something.
- petercooper 6y agoThe Icelandic parliament would be up there at around 1100 years old.
- Shared404 6y ago> For Ichiwa, that means doing one thing and doing it well — a very Japanese approach to business. This stood out to me. There's a reason UNIX-like design has stuck around.
- q-base 6y agoPartially inspired by Francis Fukuyama's "The Origins of Political Order" and this article, I really want to read more about the Japanese culture that keeps these shops alive for so long. Does anyone have good recommendations for books on Japanese culture that I could put on my wish list for Christmas?
- feralimal 6y ago"(Some of the oldest companies, including Ichiwa, cannot definitively trace their history back to their founding, but their timelines are accepted by the government, scholars and — in Ichiwa’s case — the competing mochi shop across the street.)" Skeptic that I am, I wanted to see the proof. There isn't any - its just a claim. Its just a sweet story. In fact, I suspect that this is some sort of tourism puff piece, PR of some sort, perhaps by the Japanese tourism board to drum up enthusiasm. Maybe they are planting seeds for when the lockdowns are over.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- waffl 6y agoIn Regensburg, Germany, there is a restaurant that has essentially been operating for 850 years since the construction of the Steinernen (Stone) bridge was constructed in 1146 AD, and in its precise/current form as a sausage restaurant since 1806. It's really incredible to see the longevity of a simple business like this and be able to eat where entirely different generations ate for almost a millennium (Plus the food is honestly remarkably good if you eat meat). There are only three things on the menu: sausage, sauerkraut and potato soup and together they make a very nice meal :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensburg_Sausage_Kitchen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensburg_Sausage_Kitchen