4 ms·

China moves fast at the expense of the environment, safety, individual rights, etc. I do agree though, balance is important; The U.S. seems to have excessive re

by jtdev 6y ago

China moves fast at the expense of the environment, safety, individual rights, etc. I do agree though, balance is important; The U.S. seems to have excessive regulation and burdensome bureaucracy in many domains (public infra) and regulatory capture in others (Boeing's relationship with FAA/NTSB).

tonyaiken 6y ago
They sacrifice minorities to satisfy majority, and they have the power to determine who is majority without voting. Sometimes the minority eventually get benefit, but most of the time their voice is no where to be heard.
justinzollars 6y ago
I hear this all the time but is it true? It sounds like saying "we don't want to compete, because we are just better" - meanwhile we are being left in the dust. When I visited China, China feels like America. I'd argue China has embraced capitalism and we are moving in the opposite direction.
- bpt3 6y ago
  > I'd argue China has embraced capitalism and we are moving in the opposite direction. The CCP has embraced capitalism when it's convenient for them. What they haven't embraced is a consistent rule of law or anything approaching a democratic government, which are the basis of every other functioning, stable nation on Earth.
  - empthought 6y ago
    China has more people living in it than the US, the EU, the post-Soviet states, and Brazil —- combined. Does it really matter what “every other functioning, stable nation on Earth” does, when it’s patently obvious that China will be calling the shots from here on out, thanks to everything that the Trump presidency did to internationalism?
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      > China has more people living in it than the US, the EU, the post-Soviet states, and Brazil —- combined. Until the next famine, which is imminent. Even in good times, China does not produce nearly enough food for internal consumption. Add to that the numerous famines in 2020, plus underpaying farmers, and you get a perfect storm in 2021. > it’s patently obvious that China will be calling the shots from here on out No, the CCP is a parasite that relies on the rest of the world. > thanks to everything that the Trump presidency did to internationalism Trump is excellent when it comes to foreign policy that benefits the US. As an American, the last thing I care about is fickle "internationalism."
    - bpt3 6y ago
      Yeah, it does matter. Fortunately (for those of us who aren't members of the CCP), control over domestic and international affairs isn't decided by sheer headcount. Also, I think it's likely that Trump has made leaders in the the West realize how much they rely on each other, and ties will be quickly re-strengthened under Biden.
cambalache 6y ago
> China moves fast at the expense of the environment, safety, individual rights, etc. A dire contrast with the west which since the industrial revolution grew up so fast by respecting human rights, the environment, other nations, international law. The lack of self-awareness of people like you genuinely scares me. You vote people who has the power to erase the planet with nukes and you consider yourselves superior to other races/nations. Truly hair-rising stuff.
- jtdev 6y ago
  You prefer a system where dictators and authoritarians concentrate power and the populace has no means of even airing concerns, much less reigning in dangerous leaders???
  - cambalache 6y ago
    Sounds like America to me.From BLM to massive espionage by the NSA with no repercussion, from the mortgage crisis to Abu Ghraib, from the "suicide" of Epstein to nationals being killing by drones, to Mexican kids being held in jails alone. The average American citizen has as much to fear from their government than the average Chinese, that's why the unwarranted feeling of superiority is so scaring.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > A dire contrast with the west which since the industrial revolution grew up so fast by respecting human rights, the environment, other nations, international law. Well, no, exactly like the West that did many of the same things as China at a similar stages in their development, with similar results (there's a difference between the hybrid of state capitalism and corporatism with central elites in practical control of "democratic centralism" in modern China and peak private capitalism with capitalist control of notionally democratic institutions in the early industrial West, but there are also lots of similarities), and very much like what lots of Western countries did later under slightly different systems than peak private capitalism that are also similar to China's current system (e.g., fascist corporatism) Which is exactly why "how China can do what they do" isn't at all a mystery or place the West needs to go to learn lessons. Its not that the West has never done the kind of things that China has done, but that its been there and moved on. Certainly not completely, and certainly with deep remaining problems. But a few pretty prestige projects for the elites and those willing to knuckle under for them aren't worth the cost of reversing progress on those fronts.

by jtdev 6y ago

tonyaiken 6y ago

They sacrifice minorities to satisfy majority, and they have the power to determine who is majority without voting. Sometimes the minority eventually get benefit, but most of the time their voice is no where to be heard.

justinzollars 6y ago

I hear this all the time but is it true? It sounds like saying "we don't want to compete, because we are just better" - meanwhile we are being left in the dust. When I visited China, China feels like America. I'd argue China has embraced capitalism and we are moving in the opposite direction.

bpt3 6y ago
> I'd argue China has embraced capitalism and we are moving in the opposite direction. The CCP has embraced capitalism when it's convenient for them. What they haven't embraced is a consistent rule of law or anything approaching a democratic government, which are the basis of every other functioning, stable nation on Earth.
- empthought 6y ago
  China has more people living in it than the US, the EU, the post-Soviet states, and Brazil —- combined. Does it really matter what “every other functioning, stable nation on Earth” does, when it’s patently obvious that China will be calling the shots from here on out, thanks to everything that the Trump presidency did to internationalism?
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    > China has more people living in it than the US, the EU, the post-Soviet states, and Brazil —- combined. Until the next famine, which is imminent. Even in good times, China does not produce nearly enough food for internal consumption. Add to that the numerous famines in 2020, plus underpaying farmers, and you get a perfect storm in 2021. > it’s patently obvious that China will be calling the shots from here on out No, the CCP is a parasite that relies on the rest of the world. > thanks to everything that the Trump presidency did to internationalism Trump is excellent when it comes to foreign policy that benefits the US. As an American, the last thing I care about is fickle "internationalism."
  - bpt3 6y ago
    Yeah, it does matter. Fortunately (for those of us who aren't members of the CCP), control over domestic and international affairs isn't decided by sheer headcount. Also, I think it's likely that Trump has made leaders in the the West realize how much they rely on each other, and ties will be quickly re-strengthened under Biden.

cambalache 6y ago

> China moves fast at the expense of the environment, safety, individual rights, etc. A dire contrast with the west which since the industrial revolution grew up so fast by respecting human rights, the environment, other nations, international law. The lack of self-awareness of people like you genuinely scares me. You vote people who has the power to erase the planet with nukes and you consider yourselves superior to other races/nations. Truly hair-rising stuff.

jtdev 6y ago
You prefer a system where dictators and authoritarians concentrate power and the populace has no means of even airing concerns, much less reigning in dangerous leaders???
- cambalache 6y ago
  Sounds like America to me.From BLM to massive espionage by the NSA with no repercussion, from the mortgage crisis to Abu Ghraib, from the "suicide" of Epstein to nationals being killing by drones, to Mexican kids being held in jails alone. The average American citizen has as much to fear from their government than the average Chinese, that's why the unwarranted feeling of superiority is so scaring.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> A dire contrast with the west which since the industrial revolution grew up so fast by respecting human rights, the environment, other nations, international law. Well, no, exactly like the West that did many of the same things as China at a similar stages in their development, with similar results (there's a difference between the hybrid of state capitalism and corporatism with central elites in practical control of "democratic centralism" in modern China and peak private capitalism with capitalist control of notionally democratic institutions in the early industrial West, but there are also lots of similarities), and very much like what lots of Western countries did later under slightly different systems than peak private capitalism that are also similar to China's current system (e.g., fascist corporatism) Which is exactly why "how China can do what they do" isn't at all a mystery or place the West needs to go to learn lessons. Its not that the West has never done the kind of things that China has done, but that its been there and moved on. Certainly not completely, and certainly with deep remaining problems. But a few pretty prestige projects for the elites and those willing to knuckle under for them aren't worth the cost of reversing progress on those fronts.