3 ms·

This is a bad argument. The two aren't comparable. Drinking a lot of alcohol and getting into a car is a choice. The intent doesn't even matter in most countrie

This is a bad argument. The two aren't comparable. Drinking a lot of alcohol and getting into a car is a choice. The intent doesn't even matter in most countries since it's a "Strict liability" crime. The government forcing you to take an injection is literally not your choice. Not to mention, we know drunk driving impairs people and increases risk. There are tons of studies that show that (they also show sleep deprivation is worse than alcohol for driving, but that's not illegal ... probably because it's not measurable, or it's hard to gauge intent). This vaccine has been rushed through the process with zero long-term Longitudinal studies. A drug company can yell 95% effective all they want, but the fact is, this is a HUGE unknown. The vast majority of normal scientists in other fields cannot do this research themselves and there aren't even any published papers yet we can look at. This is a bad argument. You want some more bad arguments? Look at the Buck SCOTUS decision which lead to forced serialization, or the SCOUTS decision that lead to Japanese internment camps. You know what those two decisions were dependent on? Jacobson. The vaccine case.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> Drinking a lot of alcohol and getting into a car is a choice. Not taking a vaccine and interacting with other people is also a choice. > they also show sleep deprivation is worse than alcohol for driving, but that's not illegal Drowsy driving is difficult to prove, but generally held to be within the coverage of reckless driving laws. Some jurisdictions have expressly included coverage of it, as well, at least in the context of establishing the necessary illegality in vehicular homicide statutes (NJ and Arkansas.)
- johnisgood 6y ago
  Taking a rushed vaccine with God knows what long-term effects is not going to be a choice. Have fun with it. You are playing Russian roulette that I do not wish to play. In majority of the cases COVID-19 is not lethal at all, there should be no mandatory vaccines, especially not when we have no knowledge of its long-term effects and so on and so on. If you want you can take the Chinese or Russian vaccine. I do not want to. Anecdotal: my grandmother (over 70) has been in contact with 4 COVID-19 positive people. She developed no symptoms. I think this is way too overblown. She has been in contact with many old people, too. No symptoms. > Apr 2, 2020: Asymptomatic transmission refers to transmission of the virus from a person, who does not develop symptoms. There are few reports of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic, and to date, there has been no documented asymptomatic transmission. Any news on this? Down-voter: I literally quoted https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200402-sitrep-73-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=5ae25bc7_2 https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situati.... If you have news on it, say so instead of down-voting. I want to know how likely it is for asymptomatic people to spread the virus. I swear, I will keep checking the responses because I am curious how likely it is that people will catch it from me, excluding the fact that I do not leave the house for weeks (I work remotely).
  - teh_infallible 6y ago
    You can’t argue with propaganda. Questioning vaccine safety on a “big tech” forum is wrongthink.
    - vkou 6y ago
      I'd love it if people questioning vaccine safety had actual numbers, instead of empty platitudes like '>50% of people who get COVID don't die'. (And if they made an apples to apples comparison with the numbers of not vaccinating. They never do, though, because the numbers don't help their argument.) Most people who play one round of Russian Roulette don't die, either.
      - johnisgood 6y ago
        Look, I know for a fact that I was positive before. I was asymptomatic. I have an autoimmune disease. I do not want the vaccine for myself. Does the vaccine actually stop the spreading of COVID-19? Because according to other posts, we do not know that it does, all we know is that people would take it for their own safety, but do not know if it actually stops transmission, in which case we are just talking about whether or not I decide to risk my own health. I would risk it, considering I have been asymptomatic positive before, and I do not know what this vaccine would do to me given that I have an autoimmune disease. The vaccine seems much riskier to me, than COVID-19. That, plus I barely leave the house.
        vkou 6y ago
        I ask for numbers... And I get an anecdote, and a personal opinion. You are doing a fantastic job of proving my point.
        johnisgood 6y ago
        Are you meant to reply to me? It seems quite odd. What numbers do you want from me? I think it is quite useful to know that 1) I have an autoimmune disease, 2) the vaccine has unknown side-effects especially for me, 3) I have been through COVID-19 without any issues, and 4) we do not know if it actually stops transmission. To get the vaccine is risky for me, regardless of your imaginary numbers. Show me evidence it stops transmission, and show me evidence it is safe for people with autoimmune diseases. If they come back good, I might take that particular vaccine. If not, then get off my back. If it does not stop transmission, it should be my choice, and you are just giving me a selfish opinion. I am NOT going to risk my health, period. Risk yours if you wish.
ghaff 6y ago
I would be shocked if any state made vaccination mandatory today (and I'd probably also be surprised if any of those SCOTUS decisions would be upheld/made today although, given the circumstances around Korematsu, who knows). But might universities and workplaces make it a requirement once a vaccine becomes readily available? That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. And that may force some tough decisions on skeptics who would have liked to see more time. (Which doesn't include myself.)
vkou 6y ago
> Not to mention, we know drunk driving impairs people and increases risk. How is that different from not vaccinating against a dangerous, contagious disease. It increases risk, and it kills people around you. > This vaccine has been rushed through the process with zero long-term Longitudinal studies. There are zero long-term longitudinal studies for the dangers of COVID, too (Or of odds and dangers of losing immunity years after an infection.) Do you get to just assume that there aren't any, without extending the same latitude for vaccination? Look at the comments in this subthread. Look at the arguments made against vaccination. They aren't data-driven. Not a single number is listed in them. No number of studies are going to convince people whose argument for not getting vaccinated is 'I don't think it's a big deal, and I don't want to, and I will only talk about personal responsibility, because I don't care about my impact on anyone else.'

dragonwriter 6y ago

> Drinking a lot of alcohol and getting into a car is a choice. Not taking a vaccine and interacting with other people is also a choice. > they also show sleep deprivation is worse than alcohol for driving, but that's not illegal Drowsy driving is difficult to prove, but generally held to be within the coverage of reckless driving laws. Some jurisdictions have expressly included coverage of it, as well, at least in the context of establishing the necessary illegality in vehicular homicide statutes (NJ and Arkansas.)

johnisgood 6y ago
Taking a rushed vaccine with God knows what long-term effects is not going to be a choice. Have fun with it. You are playing Russian roulette that I do not wish to play. In majority of the cases COVID-19 is not lethal at all, there should be no mandatory vaccines, especially not when we have no knowledge of its long-term effects and so on and so on. If you want you can take the Chinese or Russian vaccine. I do not want to. Anecdotal: my grandmother (over 70) has been in contact with 4 COVID-19 positive people. She developed no symptoms. I think this is way too overblown. She has been in contact with many old people, too. No symptoms. > Apr 2, 2020: Asymptomatic transmission refers to transmission of the virus from a person, who does not develop symptoms. There are few reports of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic, and to date, there has been no documented asymptomatic transmission. Any news on this? Down-voter: I literally quoted https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200402-sitrep-73-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=5ae25bc7_2 https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situati.... If you have news on it, say so instead of down-voting. I want to know how likely it is for asymptomatic people to spread the virus. I swear, I will keep checking the responses because I am curious how likely it is that people will catch it from me, excluding the fact that I do not leave the house for weeks (I work remotely).
- teh_infallible 6y ago
  You can’t argue with propaganda. Questioning vaccine safety on a “big tech” forum is wrongthink.
  - vkou 6y ago
    I'd love it if people questioning vaccine safety had actual numbers, instead of empty platitudes like '>50% of people who get COVID don't die'. (And if they made an apples to apples comparison with the numbers of not vaccinating. They never do, though, because the numbers don't help their argument.) Most people who play one round of Russian Roulette don't die, either.
    - johnisgood 6y ago
      Look, I know for a fact that I was positive before. I was asymptomatic. I have an autoimmune disease. I do not want the vaccine for myself. Does the vaccine actually stop the spreading of COVID-19? Because according to other posts, we do not know that it does, all we know is that people would take it for their own safety, but do not know if it actually stops transmission, in which case we are just talking about whether or not I decide to risk my own health. I would risk it, considering I have been asymptomatic positive before, and I do not know what this vaccine would do to me given that I have an autoimmune disease. The vaccine seems much riskier to me, than COVID-19. That, plus I barely leave the house.
      - vkou 6y ago
        I ask for numbers... And I get an anecdote, and a personal opinion. You are doing a fantastic job of proving my point.
        johnisgood 6y ago
        Are you meant to reply to me? It seems quite odd. What numbers do you want from me? I think it is quite useful to know that 1) I have an autoimmune disease, 2) the vaccine has unknown side-effects especially for me, 3) I have been through COVID-19 without any issues, and 4) we do not know if it actually stops transmission. To get the vaccine is risky for me, regardless of your imaginary numbers. Show me evidence it stops transmission, and show me evidence it is safe for people with autoimmune diseases. If they come back good, I might take that particular vaccine. If not, then get off my back. If it does not stop transmission, it should be my choice, and you are just giving me a selfish opinion. I am NOT going to risk my health, period. Risk yours if you wish.

ghaff 6y ago

I would be shocked if any state made vaccination mandatory today (and I'd probably also be surprised if any of those SCOTUS decisions would be upheld/made today although, given the circumstances around Korematsu, who knows). But might universities and workplaces make it a requirement once a vaccine becomes readily available? That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. And that may force some tough decisions on skeptics who would have liked to see more time. (Which doesn't include myself.)

vkou 6y ago

> Not to mention, we know drunk driving impairs people and increases risk. How is that different from not vaccinating against a dangerous, contagious disease. It increases risk, and it kills people around you. > This vaccine has been rushed through the process with zero long-term Longitudinal studies. There are zero long-term longitudinal studies for the dangers of COVID, too (Or of odds and dangers of losing immunity years after an infection.) Do you get to just assume that there aren't any, without extending the same latitude for vaccination? Look at the comments in this subthread. Look at the arguments made against vaccination. They aren't data-driven. Not a single number is listed in them. No number of studies are going to convince people whose argument for not getting vaccinated is 'I don't think it's a big deal, and I don't want to, and I will only talk about personal responsibility, because I don't care about my impact on anyone else.'