5 ms·

What is the objective bright line between reasonable observation of an employee and "workplace surveillance"? Is it "workplace surveillance" when you can view

What is the objective bright line between reasonable observation of an employee and "workplace surveillance"? Is it "workplace surveillance" when you can view the calendar appointments of your coworkers? Or see stats about the changelists submitted, bugs resolved, etc. of each person? Or see their dot when they are viewing a document? Maybe these Microsoft features crossed a threshold of creepiness past which the world should not go. But to act like it's a settled conversation, where right and wrong are so obvious that the issue was agreed upon long ago, does not match with reality in my opinion.

tj-teej 6y ago
There's a clear objective difference between judging output vs secretly watching an employee
- musingsole 6y ago
  Pedantic: Not if your job is acting. But I think that pedantic point hints at something that creates this problem: most jobs have a degree of performance to them (i.e. act out the part). Which is perhaps why improv gets recommended for workgroup development every second Sunday.
  - xenonite 6y ago
    No, I assume an actor or actress despises being secretly watched, too.
    - skohan 6y ago
      I think the point is, if your version of "work" is focusing on the metrics, and climbing your way to the top rather than real work output, you would be happy to have more metrics which are orthogonal to real work
CraigJPerry 6y ago
That's not what this feature is. It's a thinly veiled product to sell more Microsoft products. It's "insights" include utter garbage like "workers who share files on onedrive cause time savings vs. those who share files via email" https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/productivity/content-collaboration?view=o365-worldwide https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/product...
- gfody 6y ago
  they really should've called it something else. now they sound ridiculous: "Productivity Score is NOT a metric for measuring productivity!"
healsdata 6y ago
I think, in general, the line should be between any metrics the employee is aware they're being judged on vs. ones they're not. Don't collect data on how many OneDrive files I've shared if that's not a metric that's part of the value I provide to the company.
skohan 6y ago
> Is it "workplace surveillance" when you can view the calendar appointments of your coworkers? I feel like this is fine as long as it's opt-in. I cannot imagine having to go back and fourth about calendar slots every time I have to schedule a meeting, and this feature saves so much time. > Or see stats about the changelists submitted, bugs resolved, etc. of each person? I'm a bit ambivalent about these metrics. At least they are somewhat related to work results, rather than "how busy are you" metrics like those rolled back by MS. It's also just a visualization of data which is already publicly available in the git history. > Or see their dot when they are viewing a document? This one I think is a bit different. In a world with remote collaborative editing, I think this gives you more visibility about who might be looking over your shoulder while you are working rather than being a form of surveillance.
- dylan604 6y ago
  >> Or see their dot when they are viewing a document? > This one I think is a bit different. In a world with remote collaborative editing, I think this gives you more visibility about who might be looking over your shoulder while you are working rather than being a form of surveillance. It's two sides of the same coin isn't it? Depending on the feature is used makes it creepy, but the feature itself isn't necessary creepy.
  - skohan 6y ago
    No it's categorically different. The dot example lets me know when my manager is looking at what I'm doing. That's a feature which adds bilateral transparency about who can see what. The MS Office features which are relevant to the article let my manager see what I am doing without my knowledge. The fact that someone can watch you without your knowledge is what makes it creepy.
outworlder 6y ago
> Is it "workplace surveillance" when you can view the calendar appointments of your coworkers This doesn't have to be so black and white. I can "view" the calendar of my coworkers. That means - I see if the time slots are taken or not. I don't have to see what the actual meetings are.
- randycupertino 6y ago
  I didn't realize that Zoom Rooms in our office displayed the name of the meeting on the door outside the room. One time I jokingly named my meeting "HOG THE ROOM" until my team made fun of me.

tj-teej 6y ago

There's a clear objective difference between judging output vs secretly watching an employee

musingsole 6y ago
Pedantic: Not if your job is acting. But I think that pedantic point hints at something that creates this problem: most jobs have a degree of performance to them (i.e. act out the part). Which is perhaps why improv gets recommended for workgroup development every second Sunday.
- xenonite 6y ago
  No, I assume an actor or actress despises being secretly watched, too.
  - skohan 6y ago
    I think the point is, if your version of "work" is focusing on the metrics, and climbing your way to the top rather than real work output, you would be happy to have more metrics which are orthogonal to real work

CraigJPerry 6y ago

That's not what this feature is. It's a thinly veiled product to sell more Microsoft products. It's "insights" include utter garbage like "workers who share files on onedrive cause time savings vs. those who share files via email" https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/productivity/content-collaboration?view=o365-worldwide https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/product...

gfody 6y ago
they really should've called it something else. now they sound ridiculous: "Productivity Score is NOT a metric for measuring productivity!"

healsdata 6y ago

I think, in general, the line should be between any metrics the employee is aware they're being judged on vs. ones they're not. Don't collect data on how many OneDrive files I've shared if that's not a metric that's part of the value I provide to the company.

skohan 6y ago

> Is it "workplace surveillance" when you can view the calendar appointments of your coworkers? I feel like this is fine as long as it's opt-in. I cannot imagine having to go back and fourth about calendar slots every time I have to schedule a meeting, and this feature saves so much time. > Or see stats about the changelists submitted, bugs resolved, etc. of each person? I'm a bit ambivalent about these metrics. At least they are somewhat related to work results, rather than "how busy are you" metrics like those rolled back by MS. It's also just a visualization of data which is already publicly available in the git history. > Or see their dot when they are viewing a document? This one I think is a bit different. In a world with remote collaborative editing, I think this gives you more visibility about who might be looking over your shoulder while you are working rather than being a form of surveillance.

dylan604 6y ago
>> Or see their dot when they are viewing a document? > This one I think is a bit different. In a world with remote collaborative editing, I think this gives you more visibility about who might be looking over your shoulder while you are working rather than being a form of surveillance. It's two sides of the same coin isn't it? Depending on the feature is used makes it creepy, but the feature itself isn't necessary creepy.
- skohan 6y ago
  No it's categorically different. The dot example lets me know when my manager is looking at what I'm doing. That's a feature which adds bilateral transparency about who can see what. The MS Office features which are relevant to the article let my manager see what I am doing without my knowledge. The fact that someone can watch you without your knowledge is what makes it creepy.

outworlder 6y ago

> Is it "workplace surveillance" when you can view the calendar appointments of your coworkers This doesn't have to be so black and white. I can "view" the calendar of my coworkers. That means - I see if the time slots are taken or not. I don't have to see what the actual meetings are.

randycupertino 6y ago
I didn't realize that Zoom Rooms in our office displayed the name of the meeting on the door outside the room. One time I jokingly named my meeting "HOG THE ROOM" until my team made fun of me.