3 ms·

So if I understand correctly, you're worried that every little piece of freedom lost, is lost forever. I can understand the sentiment, and I even agree to that.

by prower 6y ago

So if I understand correctly, you're worried that every little piece of freedom lost, is lost forever. I can understand the sentiment, and I even agree to that. That said, context is important. I'm not sure this is the right way of thinking in this specific case. Problem is: that there's no way to control the virus. In other words, the law of big numbers throws a wrench in the health system... a small percentage of a very big number (like the people currently living in the US) is still a very big number. Many people getting ill together, is not good anyway you look at it. Also, keep in mind that health and money are directly related: an ill population is a poor population. That's why people happily pay taxes for healthcare in many countries. With a vaccine the situation should hopefully be more in control, but the basic modus operandi was to avoid people getting in touch too much (lockdowns, distancing etc.). Lockdowns were a hasty solution to a sudden emergency... it worked, but can't be enforced forever. Still, there is a reason why a policy is enforced. As I said, context is important. The solutions (basically just wear a mask and dont' be too close) are easy to follow and not so disruptive. Still, I have the feeling many people do not reject the policy per se, but the enforcement itself. This is not an honest reponse.

auganov 6y ago
> So if I understand correctly, you're worried that every little piece of freedom lost, is lost forever. I can understand the sentiment, and I even agree to that. Potentially. I do expect that most restrictions will be rolled back eventually. But even the damage that has already happened is significant. If protesting stops just 1 more year of that I think it's worth it. The future concern is similar reasoning will be used in other domains. > Also, keep in mind that health and money are directly related: an ill population is a poor population. That's why people happily pay taxes for healthcare in many countries. Well, I am against too much government healthcare. I generally find that most of its proponents do not make the money argument (which I do disagree with). As far as I can tell the main argument has always been the same moral argument about potential deaths/suffering. Similarly I'm willing to acknowledge that some small percentage of the population would indeed be worse off under a private system. But that doesn't justify nationalization. The desirable policy is to focus on improvements to healthcare as a whole, which by proxy helps everybody. A poor person in 2020 has access to better private healthcare than a poor person in 1980 simply because everything got better. I'm not strictly against all collectivist solutions, but the threshold for such actions should be much higher. When COVID restrictions were first introduced around the world, I was generally supportive. The advertised death rate was an order of magnitude higher. Restrictions were presented as a temporary measure to let healthcare systems ramp up capacity. That seemed reasonable to me. > The solutions (basically just wear a mask and dont' be too close) are easy to follow and not so disruptive. If you're in the US, then I think many states are doing the right thing. A few are overzealous. If you look at GDP drops across the world US is one of the lowest. And I also credit that to the many people in the US who actively voiced their opposition. Haven't seen that happen much elsewhere. In the country I'm in there are mandatory (could go to jail) quarantines for merely suspected cases and those entering from some countries. Some businesses can't operate at all. Big fines for businesses breaking rules. Tickets for not wearing a mask. And as opposed to the US most of these restrictions are legally solid, you'll have a hard time challenging them. Compliance very high. From what I'm hearing and reading it's still one of the laxer ones in Europe. The GDP drop was one of the lower ones too.

by prower 6y ago

auganov 6y ago

> So if I understand correctly, you're worried that every little piece of freedom lost, is lost forever. I can understand the sentiment, and I even agree to that. Potentially. I do expect that most restrictions will be rolled back eventually. But even the damage that has already happened is significant. If protesting stops just 1 more year of that I think it's worth it. The future concern is similar reasoning will be used in other domains. > Also, keep in mind that health and money are directly related: an ill population is a poor population. That's why people happily pay taxes for healthcare in many countries. Well, I am against too much government healthcare. I generally find that most of its proponents do not make the money argument (which I do disagree with). As far as I can tell the main argument has always been the same moral argument about potential deaths/suffering. Similarly I'm willing to acknowledge that some small percentage of the population would indeed be worse off under a private system. But that doesn't justify nationalization. The desirable policy is to focus on improvements to healthcare as a whole, which by proxy helps everybody. A poor person in 2020 has access to better private healthcare than a poor person in 1980 simply because everything got better. I'm not strictly against all collectivist solutions, but the threshold for such actions should be much higher. When COVID restrictions were first introduced around the world, I was generally supportive. The advertised death rate was an order of magnitude higher. Restrictions were presented as a temporary measure to let healthcare systems ramp up capacity. That seemed reasonable to me. > The solutions (basically just wear a mask and dont' be too close) are easy to follow and not so disruptive. If you're in the US, then I think many states are doing the right thing. A few are overzealous. If you look at GDP drops across the world US is one of the lowest. And I also credit that to the many people in the US who actively voiced their opposition. Haven't seen that happen much elsewhere. In the country I'm in there are mandatory (could go to jail) quarantines for merely suspected cases and those entering from some countries. Some businesses can't operate at all. Big fines for businesses breaking rules. Tickets for not wearing a mask. And as opposed to the US most of these restrictions are legally solid, you'll have a hard time challenging them. Compliance very high. From what I'm hearing and reading it's still one of the laxer ones in Europe. The GDP drop was one of the lower ones too.