7 ms·

I did a quick back of the envelope calculation of what MIT means by "racial minorities" in the context of this global pandemic. They mean more than 85% of the p

by moomin 6y ago

I did a quick back of the envelope calculation of what MIT means by "racial minorities" in the context of this global pandemic. They mean more than 85% of the population of the planet.

klipt 6y ago
I assume they mean minorities with respect to the country where the vaccine was developed. However the main purpose of a vaccine is herd immunity. If a large enough majority of the population become immune that we achieve herd immunity, that will still protect the minority of people for whom the vaccine didn't work.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > I assume they mean minorities with respect to the country where the vaccine was developed. I assume they mean “racial minorities” with respect to the country whose National Institutes of Health are listed as a sponsor of the research. Same-same, though.
  - asah 6y ago
    I assume they mean relative to themselves.
- svrb 6y ago
  > However the main purpose of a vaccine is herd immunity. This is false when it comes to the COVID-19 vaccines under development. They do not—and are not meant to—prevent people from contracting and spreading the virus. They only reduce the symptoms. This does not help herd immunity (other than perhaps allowing the virus to spread faster, I guess).
  - phobosanomaly 6y ago
    Unless you're a PhD molecular biologist (I'm not) with some meta-understanding of mRNA vaccines and I've missed something, I think the person you're responding to is actually correct. "COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are given in the upper arm muscle. Once the instructions (mRNA) are inside the muscle cells, the cells use them to make the protein piece. After the protein piece is made, the cell breaks down the instructions and gets rid of them." "Next, the cell displays the protein piece on its surface. Our immune systems recognize that the protein doesn’t belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies, like what happens in natural infection against COVID-19." "At the end of the process, our bodies have learned how to protect against future infection. The benefit of mRNA vaccines, like all vaccines, is those vaccinated gain this protection without ever having to risk the serious consequences of getting sick with COVID-19." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different...
    - acqq 6y ago
      The quote you use doesn't claim sterilizing immunity but the "protection" and is misleading. The publicly reported protection of the vaccines seeking EUA is against the symptomatic disease, as it can be seen in the protocols of the vaccine studies. E.g. Moderna protocol: https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/mRNA-1273-P301-Protocol.pdf https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/mRNA-1273-P301... "To be considered as a case of COVID-19 for the evaluation of the Primary Efficacy Endpoint, the following criteria must be met: - The participant must have experienced at least TWO of the following systemic symptoms: Fever (≥ 38ºC), chills, myalgia, headache, sore throat, new olfactory and taste disorder(s), OR - The participant must have experienced at least ONE of the following respiratory signs/symptoms: cough, shortness of breath or difficulty breathing, OR clinical or radiographical evidence of pneumonia; AND - The participant must have at least one NP swab, nasal swab, or saliva sample (or respiratory sample, if hospitalized) positive for SARS-CoV-2 by RT-PCR." In some other protocols it's not written in an easily quotable way but spread through the text and tables, but if you analyze the protocols carefully, the goal is the same: it's the vaccinated and symptomatic that are counted and compared with the symptomatic counted in the placebo group. So whenever you saw "protection" up to now it was implicit it's the protection from the disease as defined above. Not the sterilizing immunity. Moderna's announcement is also explicit in mentioning so defined "primary endpoint": https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-primary-efficacy-analysis-phase-3-cove-study https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d... "The primary endpoint of the Phase 3 COVE study is based on the analysis of COVID-19 cases confirmed and adjudicated starting two weeks following the second dose of vaccine." We should eventually know more, but we still don't have that information.
      - phobosanomaly 6y ago
        Both Moderna and Pfizer trials have secondary outcomes that are measurable, protective, neutralizing antibody titers. Check out the Pfizer press release. The vaccine is eliciting robust SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibodies, as well as T-cell responses. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-share-positive-early-data-lead-mrna https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... That's a direct mechanism of protection that will help to both prevent people from getting sick, and knock down shedding. You're getting so far off in the details that you're missing the forest for the trees.

by moomin 6y ago

I did a quick back of the envelope calculation of what MIT means by "racial minorities" in the context of this global pandemic. They mean more than 85% of the population of the planet.

klipt 6y ago

I assume they mean minorities with respect to the country where the vaccine was developed. However the main purpose of a vaccine is herd immunity. If a large enough majority of the population become immune that we achieve herd immunity, that will still protect the minority of people for whom the vaccine didn't work.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> I assume they mean minorities with respect to the country where the vaccine was developed. I assume they mean “racial minorities” with respect to the country whose National Institutes of Health are listed as a sponsor of the research. Same-same, though.
- asah 6y ago
  I assume they mean relative to themselves.
svrb 6y ago
> However the main purpose of a vaccine is herd immunity. This is false when it comes to the COVID-19 vaccines under development. They do not—and are not meant to—prevent people from contracting and spreading the virus. They only reduce the symptoms. This does not help herd immunity (other than perhaps allowing the virus to spread faster, I guess).
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  Unless you're a PhD molecular biologist (I'm not) with some meta-understanding of mRNA vaccines and I've missed something, I think the person you're responding to is actually correct. "COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are given in the upper arm muscle. Once the instructions (mRNA) are inside the muscle cells, the cells use them to make the protein piece. After the protein piece is made, the cell breaks down the instructions and gets rid of them." "Next, the cell displays the protein piece on its surface. Our immune systems recognize that the protein doesn’t belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies, like what happens in natural infection against COVID-19." "At the end of the process, our bodies have learned how to protect against future infection. The benefit of mRNA vaccines, like all vaccines, is those vaccinated gain this protection without ever having to risk the serious consequences of getting sick with COVID-19." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different...
  - acqq 6y ago
    The quote you use doesn't claim sterilizing immunity but the "protection" and is misleading. The publicly reported protection of the vaccines seeking EUA is against the symptomatic disease, as it can be seen in the protocols of the vaccine studies. E.g. Moderna protocol: https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/mRNA-1273-P301-Protocol.pdf https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/mRNA-1273-P301... "To be considered as a case of COVID-19 for the evaluation of the Primary Efficacy Endpoint, the following criteria must be met: - The participant must have experienced at least TWO of the following systemic symptoms: Fever (≥ 38ºC), chills, myalgia, headache, sore throat, new olfactory and taste disorder(s), OR - The participant must have experienced at least ONE of the following respiratory signs/symptoms: cough, shortness of breath or difficulty breathing, OR clinical or radiographical evidence of pneumonia; AND - The participant must have at least one NP swab, nasal swab, or saliva sample (or respiratory sample, if hospitalized) positive for SARS-CoV-2 by RT-PCR." In some other protocols it's not written in an easily quotable way but spread through the text and tables, but if you analyze the protocols carefully, the goal is the same: it's the vaccinated and symptomatic that are counted and compared with the symptomatic counted in the placebo group. So whenever you saw "protection" up to now it was implicit it's the protection from the disease as defined above. Not the sterilizing immunity. Moderna's announcement is also explicit in mentioning so defined "primary endpoint": https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-primary-efficacy-analysis-phase-3-cove-study https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d... "The primary endpoint of the Phase 3 COVE study is based on the analysis of COVID-19 cases confirmed and adjudicated starting two weeks following the second dose of vaccine." We should eventually know more, but we still don't have that information.
    - phobosanomaly 6y ago
      Both Moderna and Pfizer trials have secondary outcomes that are measurable, protective, neutralizing antibody titers. Check out the Pfizer press release. The vaccine is eliciting robust SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibodies, as well as T-cell responses. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-share-positive-early-data-lead-mrna https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... That's a direct mechanism of protection that will help to both prevent people from getting sick, and knock down shedding. You're getting so far off in the details that you're missing the forest for the trees.