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Regardless of whether or not it accurately explains the term’s origin or true meaning, the Venn diagram seems to present the more compelling idea.

ErikAugust 6y ago
That really depends on what perspective you are coming from. For the Hacker News set? Yeah, okay.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
AlexandrB 6y ago
I disagree. The Venn diagram version positions satisfaction as contingent on things you cannot possibly control ("That Which the World Needs" and "That Which You Can be Paid For"). This is a recipe for perpetual unhappiness and dissatisfaction for most.
- fairity 6y ago
  I agree that it's best to choose values that are within your control. Once you choose intrinsic values, you'll generally find that you need to make money to best align your actions with your values. The question, then, is how do you balance: 1) making enough money for food and shelter with 2) your intrinsic values? Also, will making more than enough money help you further achieve your values? The diagram presents a framework to find an optimal solution. "That which you love" is a function of your intrinsic values. The other 3 circles will help you efficiently convert your time into money to support what you love. I guess the better diagram would somehow convey the fact that, ultimately, what really matters is that which you love.
- cambalache 6y ago
  Not only that, Do you want for someone to "deeply care about something"? pay them a lot to work on that.That's it.We are masters on deluding ourselves with post-hoc rationalizations.
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  What you can control is what you do for a living. You can find jobs that are in the middle of that diagram. You can do multiple things that combine to make the middle of that diagram and so on. Saying it's outside of your control isn't entirely true. However, I do get not everyone can get to the center of that diagram; for some people it is within their control and for some it is not. To blindly dismiss it as a lack of control is a form of learned helplessness, however small, which for many is a root that creates depression. If you're depressed, this may be something you want to talk to a therapist about.
bostonvaulter2 6y ago
But the venn diagram is a completely different concept and doesn't relate to the original meaning of ikigai. I think it should just get a different name since it is NOT the same thing.

ErikAugust 6y ago

That really depends on what perspective you are coming from. For the Hacker News set? Yeah, okay.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

AlexandrB 6y ago

I disagree. The Venn diagram version positions satisfaction as contingent on things you cannot possibly control ("That Which the World Needs" and "That Which You Can be Paid For"). This is a recipe for perpetual unhappiness and dissatisfaction for most.

fairity 6y ago
I agree that it's best to choose values that are within your control. Once you choose intrinsic values, you'll generally find that you need to make money to best align your actions with your values. The question, then, is how do you balance: 1) making enough money for food and shelter with 2) your intrinsic values? Also, will making more than enough money help you further achieve your values? The diagram presents a framework to find an optimal solution. "That which you love" is a function of your intrinsic values. The other 3 circles will help you efficiently convert your time into money to support what you love. I guess the better diagram would somehow convey the fact that, ultimately, what really matters is that which you love.
cambalache 6y ago
Not only that, Do you want for someone to "deeply care about something"? pay them a lot to work on that.That's it.We are masters on deluding ourselves with post-hoc rationalizations.
proverbialbunny 6y ago
What you can control is what you do for a living. You can find jobs that are in the middle of that diagram. You can do multiple things that combine to make the middle of that diagram and so on. Saying it's outside of your control isn't entirely true. However, I do get not everyone can get to the center of that diagram; for some people it is within their control and for some it is not. To blindly dismiss it as a lack of control is a form of learned helplessness, however small, which for many is a root that creates depression. If you're depressed, this may be something you want to talk to a therapist about.

bostonvaulter2 6y ago

But the venn diagram is a completely different concept and doesn't relate to the original meaning of ikigai. I think it should just get a different name since it is NOT the same thing.