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I have mild moral qualms with killing and eating animals (treat others the way you want to be treated). But unfortunately, meat protein has some of the highest

I have mild moral qualms with killing and eating animals (treat others the way you want to be treated). But unfortunately, meat protein has some of the highest biological value, outside of egg whites/whey/dairy proteins. When you factor in how cheap low-grade meat is, it winds up being incredibly economical to just eat a bunch of $2/lb chicken and whatnot. Especially if you're trying to eat upwards of 200-250g of protein a day, it gets expensive fast. So I have sort of accepted this hypocritical double-standard, where I recognize that what I am doing is not entirely ethical but at the same time it's too practical for me to give up. Plus, I love meat. Lab-grown meat at somewhere near the price of regular meat has been a dream for me because then I get to have my cake and eat it too. Don't have to give up meat, or try to substitute non-meat proteins for it, and no actual sentient being has to suffer and die in order for me to continue doing so. Huge win-win, can't come soon enough. I would eat the plant-based stuff if someone could prove comparable biological value and the price was the same or only marginally higher, too. I really don't care, as long as it tastes (doesn't even have to look) like meat, and the bodily effects are identical.

pmoriarty 6y ago
"meat protein has some of the highest biological value" By what standard? When I looked in to this for myself, it seemed like it's very unlikely for vegetarians to have protein deficiencies as long as they ate enough calories to sustain themselves and ate a decent variety of food (which they should be doing anyway, to stave off other health issues).
- gavinray 6y ago
  Ah, the term "biological value" probably sounds abstract, but no that's the pedantic/scientific term for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_value The tl;dr is that it boils down to amino-acid profile. There are 9 Essential Amino Acid's (EAA's) that human body can't synthesize from other amino acids. A food's biological value is determined (primarily) by it's amino acid profile. It's also not just about the overall amount, but also the ratio, since the way that amino acid absorption works is on a first-come-first-serve basis and so the proportion matters almost as much as composition. There's a list of common foods and their biological value on that page if you're curious. > "When I looked in to this for myself, it seemed like it's very unlikely for vegetarians to have protein deficiencies as long as they ate enough calories to sustain themselves and ate a decent variety of food (which they should be doing anyway, to stave off other health issues)." Ah, yeah. For the average person, it doesn't matter. You can pretty much eat anything and be alright. The grand majority of people have god-awful diets and seem to function just fine. I recreationally bodybuild so my dietary requirements are kind of an edgecase scenario.
  - pmoriarty 6y ago
    Articles like these[1][2] imply that vegetable proteins provide all the amino acids the body needs, and the body can "mix and match" whatever it requires. As for bodybuilding, there are some vegetarian and even vegan bodybuilders out there. Have you looked in to how/what they eat? [1] - https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/ [2] - https://www.treehugger.com/myth-complete-protein-4858275 https://www.treehugger.com/myth-complete-protein-4858275
Zancarius 6y ago
> Huge win-win, can't come soon enough. This is probably going to sound gross, but for me it's the allure of not having to bite into bone fragments or tendons. I'm one of those types of people where if there's an eggshell, piece of bone, stem, or anything else that's an unintended guest in my food, I will find it. I don't mean for this motive to sound selfish, but it would be nice to be able to enjoy something of the sort (e.g. ground beef) without it becoming meat-flavored chewing gum. Joking aside, I think the potential for a high degree of consistency in terms of texture and flavor would be another bonus.
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  "it would be nice to be able to enjoy something of the sort (e.g. ground beef) without it becoming meat-flavored chewing gum" I can't name a brand for you off-hand, but whenever I've bought vegetarian ground-beef substitutes at grocery stores, I've never once had this issue. They all tasted pretty much exactly like ground beef. In my experience, that particular substitute is not a challenge. There are also some pretty great vegetarian hamburger substitutes, like Boca Burger.
  - Zancarius 6y ago
    > In my experience, that particular substitute is not a challenge. It's not. Some of the TVP products are pretty decent (and surprisingly so). And honestly, it's off-putting enough that it'd be worth using a substitute for. I eat hamburgers only rarely, so most of my ground beef consumption is in other dishes that are heavily seasoned enough that using a substitute is no problem (e.g. taco meat). Otherwise, my problem is if I'm fixing chicken breasts for something and miss some connective tissue when I'm preparing it. I can guarantee with near certainty that if I do, I will be the one to find it. :) (Sorry to gross you out if you're vegan.)
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  FWIW, if you are regularly finding abnormal things in your ground beef, then switch providers. In my experience some shops (e.g. Winco, who I otherwise appreciate for their meat selection) have a really high contamination rate in their ground beef for things like bones. A halfway decent butcher won't have the same issue, and they're not that much more expensive.

pmoriarty 6y ago

"meat protein has some of the highest biological value" By what standard? When I looked in to this for myself, it seemed like it's very unlikely for vegetarians to have protein deficiencies as long as they ate enough calories to sustain themselves and ate a decent variety of food (which they should be doing anyway, to stave off other health issues).

gavinray 6y ago
Ah, the term "biological value" probably sounds abstract, but no that's the pedantic/scientific term for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_value The tl;dr is that it boils down to amino-acid profile. There are 9 Essential Amino Acid's (EAA's) that human body can't synthesize from other amino acids. A food's biological value is determined (primarily) by it's amino acid profile. It's also not just about the overall amount, but also the ratio, since the way that amino acid absorption works is on a first-come-first-serve basis and so the proportion matters almost as much as composition. There's a list of common foods and their biological value on that page if you're curious. > "When I looked in to this for myself, it seemed like it's very unlikely for vegetarians to have protein deficiencies as long as they ate enough calories to sustain themselves and ate a decent variety of food (which they should be doing anyway, to stave off other health issues)." Ah, yeah. For the average person, it doesn't matter. You can pretty much eat anything and be alright. The grand majority of people have god-awful diets and seem to function just fine. I recreationally bodybuild so my dietary requirements are kind of an edgecase scenario.
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  Articles like these[1][2] imply that vegetable proteins provide all the amino acids the body needs, and the body can "mix and match" whatever it requires. As for bodybuilding, there are some vegetarian and even vegan bodybuilders out there. Have you looked in to how/what they eat? [1] - https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/ [2] - https://www.treehugger.com/myth-complete-protein-4858275 https://www.treehugger.com/myth-complete-protein-4858275

Zancarius 6y ago

> Huge win-win, can't come soon enough. This is probably going to sound gross, but for me it's the allure of not having to bite into bone fragments or tendons. I'm one of those types of people where if there's an eggshell, piece of bone, stem, or anything else that's an unintended guest in my food, I will find it. I don't mean for this motive to sound selfish, but it would be nice to be able to enjoy something of the sort (e.g. ground beef) without it becoming meat-flavored chewing gum. Joking aside, I think the potential for a high degree of consistency in terms of texture and flavor would be another bonus.

pmoriarty 6y ago
"it would be nice to be able to enjoy something of the sort (e.g. ground beef) without it becoming meat-flavored chewing gum" I can't name a brand for you off-hand, but whenever I've bought vegetarian ground-beef substitutes at grocery stores, I've never once had this issue. They all tasted pretty much exactly like ground beef. In my experience, that particular substitute is not a challenge. There are also some pretty great vegetarian hamburger substitutes, like Boca Burger.
- Zancarius 6y ago
  > In my experience, that particular substitute is not a challenge. It's not. Some of the TVP products are pretty decent (and surprisingly so). And honestly, it's off-putting enough that it'd be worth using a substitute for. I eat hamburgers only rarely, so most of my ground beef consumption is in other dishes that are heavily seasoned enough that using a substitute is no problem (e.g. taco meat). Otherwise, my problem is if I'm fixing chicken breasts for something and miss some connective tissue when I'm preparing it. I can guarantee with near certainty that if I do, I will be the one to find it. :) (Sorry to gross you out if you're vegan.)
rootusrootus 6y ago
FWIW, if you are regularly finding abnormal things in your ground beef, then switch providers. In my experience some shops (e.g. Winco, who I otherwise appreciate for their meat selection) have a really high contamination rate in their ground beef for things like bones. A halfway decent butcher won't have the same issue, and they're not that much more expensive.