6 ms·

If you read the science, it's much more likely that the vaccine is simply ineffective than would cause any kind of zombie apocalypse.

jonplackett 6y ago
any kind So not even a mild case of the zombs?
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  Presumably they meant the non-human kind: https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/25/zombie-mink-rise-from-grave-after-millions-culled-across-denmark-13653032/ https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/25/zombie-mink-rise-from-grave-a...
djsumdog 6y ago
With this type of accelerated testing, it's much more likely we'll see a small percentage of permanent neurological issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bOHYZhL0WQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bOHYZhL0WQ
- Diederich 6y ago
  > small percentage If I carried the decimal correctly, 5 thousand out of 58 million is less than 1% of 1%.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    I'm sure that will make those 5,000 who have trouble walking or smiling feel so much better.
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      Is that not true of all medicines? There is a net benefit calculation to be made.
      - krona 6y ago
        The hippocratic oath doesn't pertain to a doctors effect on an entire society, but to her patient. Utilitarian medical ethics do not apply in any sane society.
    - vkou 6y ago
      60,000 people have already died of COVID in the UK, and many more are scheduled to, without vaccination. Hard to walk or smile when you're dead.
      - Mauricebranagh 6y ago
        Passed 75k at weekend
      - djsumdog 6y ago
        The vast majority of people under 50 who catch CoV2 recovery completely with minimal symptoms. There is a trade-off and people need to be able to evaluate those risk and make those decision individually.
        throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
        What is a 'vast majority', please post actual figures. > and make those decision individually if you can somehow ensure people who get sick can't spread it, sure it's down to the individual, but it's a society-level problem. That's what "infectious" means.
        vkou 6y ago
        You are shifting the goal posts. 1. More than 5,000 people under 50 in a population of 66 million will have serious side effects from COVID. 2. In fact, nearly 3,000 people under 50 have already died from COVID in the UK. 3. This is despite only a small percentage of the population (3-10%) having been infected by COVID. 4. Even if you are under 50, and don't die to COVID, you are going to kill other people, by spreading it to them.
        throwaway201103 6y ago
        If there's an effective vaccine, those who do not want to risk infection from COVID can make the choice to take the vaccine. Those who feel that the risk that they will become infected is one that they are willing to take can do that. Nobody is put into danger that they do not choose to accept.
    - rrss 6y ago
      Worth noting that COVID-19 probably triggers GBS in some people (like many infections). So maybe the vaccine triggers GBS in rare cases, but the disease appears to also sometimes cause long term problems (neurological and otherwise). 1976 was potentially problematic because there was a massive immunization program because of fears of a pandemic, but H1N1 was not actually spreading. 2020 is obviously a different story. The pandemic is here.
      - johnisgood 6y ago
        I do not want the vaccine, but it might be mandatory here in Eastern Europe. My family member was tested positive, and I lived with him, we were under quarantine. No symptoms, ever! I do not want to the vaccine, damn it.
        vkou 6y ago
        I don't want to have to be sober to drive my car on public roadways, and yet, here I am, acknowledging that I have some basic responsibility for the safety of people around me. This approach is incredibly selfish. Would you pursue it if you were held responsible for consequences of that behaviour, as drunk drivers are?
        djsumdog 6y ago
        This is a bad argument. The two aren't comparable. Drinking a lot of alcohol and getting into a car is a choice. The intent doesn't even matter in most countries since it's a "Strict liability" crime. The government forcing you to take an injection is literally not your choice. Not to mention, we know drunk driving impairs people and increases risk. There are tons of studies that show that (they also show sleep deprivation is worse than alcohol for driving, but that's not illegal ... probably because it's not measurable, or it's hard to gauge intent). This vaccine has been rushed through the process with zero long-term Longitudinal studies. A drug company can yell 95% effective all they want, but the fact is, this is a HUGE unknown. The vast majority of normal scientists in other fields cannot do this research themselves and there aren't even any published papers yet we can look at. This is a bad argument. You want some more bad arguments? Look at the Buck SCOTUS decision which lead to forced serialization, or the SCOUTS decision that lead to Japanese internment camps. You know what those two decisions were dependent on? Jacobson. The vaccine case.

jonplackett 6y ago

any kind So not even a mild case of the zombs?

dane-pgp 6y ago
Presumably they meant the non-human kind: https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/25/zombie-mink-rise-from-grave-after-millions-culled-across-denmark-13653032/ https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/25/zombie-mink-rise-from-grave-a...

djsumdog 6y ago

With this type of accelerated testing, it's much more likely we'll see a small percentage of permanent neurological issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bOHYZhL0WQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bOHYZhL0WQ

Diederich 6y ago
> small percentage If I carried the decimal correctly, 5 thousand out of 58 million is less than 1% of 1%.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  I'm sure that will make those 5,000 who have trouble walking or smiling feel so much better.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    Is that not true of all medicines? There is a net benefit calculation to be made.
    - krona 6y ago
      The hippocratic oath doesn't pertain to a doctors effect on an entire society, but to her patient. Utilitarian medical ethics do not apply in any sane society.
  - vkou 6y ago
    60,000 people have already died of COVID in the UK, and many more are scheduled to, without vaccination. Hard to walk or smile when you're dead.
    - Mauricebranagh 6y ago
      Passed 75k at weekend
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      The vast majority of people under 50 who catch CoV2 recovery completely with minimal symptoms. There is a trade-off and people need to be able to evaluate those risk and make those decision individually.
      - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
        What is a 'vast majority', please post actual figures. > and make those decision individually if you can somehow ensure people who get sick can't spread it, sure it's down to the individual, but it's a society-level problem. That's what "infectious" means.
      - vkou 6y ago
        You are shifting the goal posts. 1. More than 5,000 people under 50 in a population of 66 million will have serious side effects from COVID. 2. In fact, nearly 3,000 people under 50 have already died from COVID in the UK. 3. This is despite only a small percentage of the population (3-10%) having been infected by COVID. 4. Even if you are under 50, and don't die to COVID, you are going to kill other people, by spreading it to them.
        throwaway201103 6y ago
        If there's an effective vaccine, those who do not want to risk infection from COVID can make the choice to take the vaccine. Those who feel that the risk that they will become infected is one that they are willing to take can do that. Nobody is put into danger that they do not choose to accept.
  - rrss 6y ago
    Worth noting that COVID-19 probably triggers GBS in some people (like many infections). So maybe the vaccine triggers GBS in rare cases, but the disease appears to also sometimes cause long term problems (neurological and otherwise). 1976 was potentially problematic because there was a massive immunization program because of fears of a pandemic, but H1N1 was not actually spreading. 2020 is obviously a different story. The pandemic is here.
    - johnisgood 6y ago
      I do not want the vaccine, but it might be mandatory here in Eastern Europe. My family member was tested positive, and I lived with him, we were under quarantine. No symptoms, ever! I do not want to the vaccine, damn it.
      - vkou 6y ago
        I don't want to have to be sober to drive my car on public roadways, and yet, here I am, acknowledging that I have some basic responsibility for the safety of people around me. This approach is incredibly selfish. Would you pursue it if you were held responsible for consequences of that behaviour, as drunk drivers are?
        djsumdog 6y ago
        This is a bad argument. The two aren't comparable. Drinking a lot of alcohol and getting into a car is a choice. The intent doesn't even matter in most countries since it's a "Strict liability" crime. The government forcing you to take an injection is literally not your choice. Not to mention, we know drunk driving impairs people and increases risk. There are tons of studies that show that (they also show sleep deprivation is worse than alcohol for driving, but that's not illegal ... probably because it's not measurable, or it's hard to gauge intent). This vaccine has been rushed through the process with zero long-term Longitudinal studies. A drug company can yell 95% effective all they want, but the fact is, this is a HUGE unknown. The vast majority of normal scientists in other fields cannot do this research themselves and there aren't even any published papers yet we can look at. This is a bad argument. You want some more bad arguments? Look at the Buck SCOTUS decision which lead to forced serialization, or the SCOUTS decision that lead to Japanese internment camps. You know what those two decisions were dependent on? Jacobson. The vaccine case.