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> Most of the world doesn't really care if their meat is cruelty-free I don't think most of the world views animal husbandry as having inherent cruelty in the

> Most of the world doesn't really care if their meat is cruelty-free I don't think most of the world views animal husbandry as having inherent cruelty in the first place.

omginternets 6y ago
Agree. This is a very West-coast American mentality. Frankly, the majority of the country doesn't see it that way, let alone the rest of the world. And one often finds that the relationship to food is different outside of the US. It's somehow less of a commodity and more of a meaningful tradition. You'll be hard-pressed to convince Frenchmen to let go of Limousin beef, for example, and in a manner that's markedly different from Texans defending their meat.
- Majestic121 6y ago
  Vegetarianism is growing in other parts of the world, like France, and for much of the same reason as in the American West Coast. While you're right that there might be more attachment to 'traditional' and overall high quality meat, there's still a big movement for cruelty free meat as you can see by the impact of associations like L214 for example, or the fact that there was an increase of 25% for the vegetarian market in 2018
  - omginternets 6y ago
    There's certainly more than there used to be, but the fervor endemic to the US seems to be absent from France.
hshshs2 6y ago
Most of the world doesn’t produce meat in massive centralized factories. Painting the entirety of anti-meat Americans as “meat is murder” zealots against all forms of husbandry oversimplifies the issue.
astura 6y ago
Traditional animal husbandry? Probably not. Factory farms? Most people think of them as at least somewhat inhumane.
numpad0 6y ago
Certainly ethical vegetarianism is a very specific counter culture against European/American agriculture. I just happened to come across a mean farmer in my language bragging about a “tadpole massacre” in their ricefield that happens when the field is drained in an appropriate season, a very conventional, not at all industrial, pesticide free, yet apparently a cruel method for unwanted animals, used to produce entirely vegetable products. Conventional ethical vegetarianism don’t offer a consensus around such animal cruelty involved in vegetable produces, it’s completely out of sight and out of scope. I believe this is a solved issue in trains of philosophy/religions from India, where some groups of people have practiced partial vegetarianism for millenniums, which I suspect to be the actual upstream of various vegetarianisms, and the layman’s versions of it say you should accept the sin, reasonably try to minimize harm to all life, and leave animal processing to (enslaved) butcher classes. The slavery part is kind of creepy, but the former two parts solves this classes of controversies beautifully. As you can see, most, if not all, known branches of vegetarianisms are specifically crafted rebellion movement against certain parts of western agriculture, and I think thus they are moot in other contexts.

> Most of the world doesn't really care if their meat is cruelty-free I don't think most of the world views animal husbandry as having inherent cruelty in the first place.

omginternets 6y ago

Agree. This is a very West-coast American mentality. Frankly, the majority of the country doesn't see it that way, let alone the rest of the world. And one often finds that the relationship to food is different outside of the US. It's somehow less of a commodity and more of a meaningful tradition. You'll be hard-pressed to convince Frenchmen to let go of Limousin beef, for example, and in a manner that's markedly different from Texans defending their meat.

Majestic121 6y ago
Vegetarianism is growing in other parts of the world, like France, and for much of the same reason as in the American West Coast. While you're right that there might be more attachment to 'traditional' and overall high quality meat, there's still a big movement for cruelty free meat as you can see by the impact of associations like L214 for example, or the fact that there was an increase of 25% for the vegetarian market in 2018
- omginternets 6y ago
  There's certainly more than there used to be, but the fervor endemic to the US seems to be absent from France.

hshshs2 6y ago

Most of the world doesn’t produce meat in massive centralized factories. Painting the entirety of anti-meat Americans as “meat is murder” zealots against all forms of husbandry oversimplifies the issue.

astura 6y ago

Traditional animal husbandry? Probably not. Factory farms? Most people think of them as at least somewhat inhumane.

numpad0 6y ago

Certainly ethical vegetarianism is a very specific counter culture against European/American agriculture. I just happened to come across a mean farmer in my language bragging about a “tadpole massacre” in their ricefield that happens when the field is drained in an appropriate season, a very conventional, not at all industrial, pesticide free, yet apparently a cruel method for unwanted animals, used to produce entirely vegetable products. Conventional ethical vegetarianism don’t offer a consensus around such animal cruelty involved in vegetable produces, it’s completely out of sight and out of scope. I believe this is a solved issue in trains of philosophy/religions from India, where some groups of people have practiced partial vegetarianism for millenniums, which I suspect to be the actual upstream of various vegetarianisms, and the layman’s versions of it say you should accept the sin, reasonably try to minimize harm to all life, and leave animal processing to (enslaved) butcher classes. The slavery part is kind of creepy, but the former two parts solves this classes of controversies beautifully. As you can see, most, if not all, known branches of vegetarianisms are specifically crafted rebellion movement against certain parts of western agriculture, and I think thus they are moot in other contexts.