7 ms·

I will say something: Just from perception, the U.S does not feel attractive anymore as a place to work in. Americans are whining constantly online about how te

I will say something: Just from perception, the U.S does not feel attractive anymore as a place to work in. Americans are whining constantly online about how terrible their country is, on my recent visit I was shocked at how dilapidated the place looks compared to europe, the value of the dollar is falling rapidly, and there is this undercurrent of anti-immigrant sentiment that is broadcasted via the media. In the past the U.S felt like the open and powerful place where everything can be achieved, but now it no longer feels that way. So many new countries are now nimble and growing with markets opening up - while the U.S is going exactly the other way. It's restricting and shrinking, markets are getting closed. Worst of all, with the weak dollar, earning money in the U.S doesn't get you a lot of money to send home anymore.

endtwist 15y ago
I just want to point out that you're making a gross over-generalization by saying that you were "shocked at how dilapidated the place looks" as though it were a 250 sq. foot (~23 m^2) apartment. The continental US is 3,794,101 sq. miles (9,826,676 km^2) and some of it is bound to look "dilapidated," but not nearly the entirety.
- maxklein 15y ago
  Well San Francisco, which is the tech mecca, looks pretty dilapidated.
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  - d_r 15y ago
    San Francisco is a beautiful city that for some reason is not incredibly well-kept. I'm not sure if I feel that way because of the not-too-friendly homeless, or the overall look of being worn out in some parts like Market Street. I'm from New York and frequently travel to China, both of which obviously have "old" spots. For some reason, "old" there for me evokes the feeling of appreciation for history, while the San Francisco "old" makes me sad.
    - beedogs 15y ago
      "Old" in China is several hundred years different than "old" in San Francisco, unless you're in Muir Woods.
    - geebee 15y ago
      I agree... kind of. Not all of SF feels dilapidated, and not all old parts make me depressed. Kind of depends. I've lived here my whole life (almost 40 years now, sheesh), and some parts have gotten more interesting. The embarcadero has gotten much more appealing. The decision to not rebuild the old freeway was a good one - now there's a long bayside path from the restored ferry building past the new ballpark (one of the nicest in the country, I think), and then finally down past the new UCSF biomed campus (which will be producing some mind blowing work). This will be a pretty incredible new neighborhood. I also think that crissy field is a more appealing place than it was when I was a kid, and the long walk from the presidio (fort point under the bridge through fort mason contains "old stuff" that is very evocative). Market Street around civic center is appalling, and it spills over into Powell street and the Embarcadero near market enough that those spots are clearly tarnished, especially in the eyes of visitors. But pretty much every corner of the city suffers from blight - the new Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park or the De Young may sparkle (a little too much for my taste), but the appeal of the park is diminished by the presence of a large homeless population (including stray pit bulls). Maybe these things are more noticeably to newcomers now? While it may seem a little facile to blame too much on one problem, I don't think you can understate how severe an impact the "hardcore homeless" population has had on SF. Not only does it create blight, it's also a big drain on our finances. SF is in a tough spot here. It's a liberal city that has friendlier homeless policies, but unfortunately, that makes us a magnet. As for New York... lived there for only 6 months, but Mahnattan is truly a vibrant place. I was at Columbia, and I'd say I was hit up for spare change about as often as I am in SF, though. This was in the mid 90s, maybe it's cleaned up better than SF since then, haven't really been back.
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- danssig 15y ago
  Not really. I lived in the US for nearly three decades and I've been to most states and I can say you'd be hard pressed to find a city that didn't have dilapidated looking parts. I think it's the nature of it. When a business moves out they just leave the place as it is and it's up to the next renter to make their business look nice. In every place I've been in Europe that is reversed: putting the place back how you found it is the responsibility of the renter. That alone accounts for a big "ghost town" look when towns are going through hard times.
pacomerh 15y ago
As a place to live you might be right, but as an industry (in my case) I'm finding it more attractive in the sense that I always meet people (mostly online) that are building new things, that are experimenting with new ideas and trying to break conventional schemes. Today if I wanted I could move back to my country and I would have almost the same amount of work working remotely. I live in CA and most of my clients are local & I never meet most of them in person. There's an interesting trust that wasn't here before. 2 years ago, even if you presented an amazing resume they would still want to see your face, today 20% of the cases do that. Again this is from my perspective.
va_coder 15y ago
Which countries do you consider to be "new", clean and nimble?
- potatolicious 15y ago
  I immigrated from Taiwan in the mid 90s and went back this month, the first time in nearly 17 years. When I left, it was squarely sitting in second-world status, but I was surprised to go back and find a modern, bustling, clean, developed nation. There is infrastructure there, unlike most American cities. I live in Seattle, and everything around here feels like it's falling apart - you walk around and there's the distinct feeling that you're walking through a relic... something from another era, now disused and slowly decaying. I did not get this feeling anywhere in Taipei. Everywhere you go something is being overhauled, more metro lines are being built constantly, there's new construction, new businesses. Technology is being integrated into people's lives in a wonderful way - even my 80 year-old grandmother navigates all the touch screen smart-card kiosks in the MRT system like a pro. It was a bit of a disappointment to come back to Seattle and pick up a paper transfer riding a dilapidated bus that doesn't even have a voice-recorded stop call-out feature. It's even more depressing to watch all the political infighting in the city about rapid transit buildouts - the Taiwanese tunneled through much more densely populated, existing developed areas years ago, and now they get to enjoy one of the most advanced rapid transit system I've ever seen, while here in Seattle we've been sitting on our ass about this issue for 30 years.
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  - va_coder 15y ago
    There's a lot I love about the US but it's true that many cities have poorly managed public transit systems. I don't think I have ever grabbed a bus transfer and not felt disappointed either, regardless of how clean it was. Maybe you need to upgrade your lifestyle and buy yourself a nice set of wheels. That's how we roll in America ;)
tybris 15y ago
I had the opposite feeling. When I first went there 10 years ago no one had a GSM, the powergrid looked like Edison himself built it (without help), websites were of laughable quality, even mundane things like hotels had a primitive feel to them. Now, I can only dream of Europe having things like America's NetFlix, Internet industry, smart phone usage, creative restaurants, hotels, and much more. There are still some things quite primitive in the U.S. Internet banking in the is ridiculously limited. The last time I saw a CRT monitor was on an American air line. Overall though, my feeling is that Europe prevailed in the past 10 years, but America evolved.
- beedogs 15y ago
  > 10 years ago ... websites were of laughable quality Did anyone have a reasonable-looking website in 2001? How is that an American phenomenon? > Now, I can only dream of Europe having things like America's NetFlix, Internet industry, smart phone usage, creative restaurants, hotels, and much more. The service industry is the only thing left throughout America, so it's no wonder it's the only one where innovation is taking place.
  - tybris 15y ago
    > Did anyone have a reasonable-looking website in 2001? How is that an American phenomenon? Yes. European websites at the time were reasonably modern. e.g., a web shop http://replay.web.archive.org/20010614234849/http://www.bol.com/index.html http://replay.web.archive.org/20010614234849/http://www.bol.... American websites were always one big mess, lacking any form of tasteful design or functionality. http://replay.web.archive.org/20000516060156/http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/subst/home/home.html http://replay.web.archive.org/20000516060156/http://www.amaz...
    - beedogs 15y ago
      I'm really not sure what kind of point you're trying to make with that terrible comparison; those two companies couldn't be any more different. Show me what European storefront sites looked like in 2001.
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thisisfmu 15y ago
returning from a recent trip to continental Europe I was shocked at how dilapidated most of the UK looks compared to Germany and Austria. I wonder to what extent this is a matter of cultural priorities and taste rather than an indicator of economic well-being however.

endtwist 15y ago

I just want to point out that you're making a gross over-generalization by saying that you were "shocked at how dilapidated the place looks" as though it were a 250 sq. foot (~23 m^2) apartment. The continental US is 3,794,101 sq. miles (9,826,676 km^2) and some of it is bound to look "dilapidated," but not nearly the entirety.

maxklein 15y ago
Well San Francisco, which is the tech mecca, looks pretty dilapidated.
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- d_r 15y ago
  San Francisco is a beautiful city that for some reason is not incredibly well-kept. I'm not sure if I feel that way because of the not-too-friendly homeless, or the overall look of being worn out in some parts like Market Street. I'm from New York and frequently travel to China, both of which obviously have "old" spots. For some reason, "old" there for me evokes the feeling of appreciation for history, while the San Francisco "old" makes me sad.
  - beedogs 15y ago
    "Old" in China is several hundred years different than "old" in San Francisco, unless you're in Muir Woods.
  - geebee 15y ago
    I agree... kind of. Not all of SF feels dilapidated, and not all old parts make me depressed. Kind of depends. I've lived here my whole life (almost 40 years now, sheesh), and some parts have gotten more interesting. The embarcadero has gotten much more appealing. The decision to not rebuild the old freeway was a good one - now there's a long bayside path from the restored ferry building past the new ballpark (one of the nicest in the country, I think), and then finally down past the new UCSF biomed campus (which will be producing some mind blowing work). This will be a pretty incredible new neighborhood. I also think that crissy field is a more appealing place than it was when I was a kid, and the long walk from the presidio (fort point under the bridge through fort mason contains "old stuff" that is very evocative). Market Street around civic center is appalling, and it spills over into Powell street and the Embarcadero near market enough that those spots are clearly tarnished, especially in the eyes of visitors. But pretty much every corner of the city suffers from blight - the new Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park or the De Young may sparkle (a little too much for my taste), but the appeal of the park is diminished by the presence of a large homeless population (including stray pit bulls). Maybe these things are more noticeably to newcomers now? While it may seem a little facile to blame too much on one problem, I don't think you can understate how severe an impact the "hardcore homeless" population has had on SF. Not only does it create blight, it's also a big drain on our finances. SF is in a tough spot here. It's a liberal city that has friendlier homeless policies, but unfortunately, that makes us a magnet. As for New York... lived there for only 6 months, but Mahnattan is truly a vibrant place. I was at Columbia, and I'd say I was hit up for spare change about as often as I am in SF, though. This was in the mid 90s, maybe it's cleaned up better than SF since then, haven't really been back.
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danssig 15y ago
Not really. I lived in the US for nearly three decades and I've been to most states and I can say you'd be hard pressed to find a city that didn't have dilapidated looking parts. I think it's the nature of it. When a business moves out they just leave the place as it is and it's up to the next renter to make their business look nice. In every place I've been in Europe that is reversed: putting the place back how you found it is the responsibility of the renter. That alone accounts for a big "ghost town" look when towns are going through hard times.

pacomerh 15y ago

As a place to live you might be right, but as an industry (in my case) I'm finding it more attractive in the sense that I always meet people (mostly online) that are building new things, that are experimenting with new ideas and trying to break conventional schemes. Today if I wanted I could move back to my country and I would have almost the same amount of work working remotely. I live in CA and most of my clients are local & I never meet most of them in person. There's an interesting trust that wasn't here before. 2 years ago, even if you presented an amazing resume they would still want to see your face, today 20% of the cases do that. Again this is from my perspective.

va_coder 15y ago

Which countries do you consider to be "new", clean and nimble?

potatolicious 15y ago
I immigrated from Taiwan in the mid 90s and went back this month, the first time in nearly 17 years. When I left, it was squarely sitting in second-world status, but I was surprised to go back and find a modern, bustling, clean, developed nation. There is infrastructure there, unlike most American cities. I live in Seattle, and everything around here feels like it's falling apart - you walk around and there's the distinct feeling that you're walking through a relic... something from another era, now disused and slowly decaying. I did not get this feeling anywhere in Taipei. Everywhere you go something is being overhauled, more metro lines are being built constantly, there's new construction, new businesses. Technology is being integrated into people's lives in a wonderful way - even my 80 year-old grandmother navigates all the touch screen smart-card kiosks in the MRT system like a pro. It was a bit of a disappointment to come back to Seattle and pick up a paper transfer riding a dilapidated bus that doesn't even have a voice-recorded stop call-out feature. It's even more depressing to watch all the political infighting in the city about rapid transit buildouts - the Taiwanese tunneled through much more densely populated, existing developed areas years ago, and now they get to enjoy one of the most advanced rapid transit system I've ever seen, while here in Seattle we've been sitting on our ass about this issue for 30 years.
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- va_coder 15y ago
  There's a lot I love about the US but it's true that many cities have poorly managed public transit systems. I don't think I have ever grabbed a bus transfer and not felt disappointed either, regardless of how clean it was. Maybe you need to upgrade your lifestyle and buy yourself a nice set of wheels. That's how we roll in America ;)

tybris 15y ago

I had the opposite feeling. When I first went there 10 years ago no one had a GSM, the powergrid looked like Edison himself built it (without help), websites were of laughable quality, even mundane things like hotels had a primitive feel to them. Now, I can only dream of Europe having things like America's NetFlix, Internet industry, smart phone usage, creative restaurants, hotels, and much more. There are still some things quite primitive in the U.S. Internet banking in the is ridiculously limited. The last time I saw a CRT monitor was on an American air line. Overall though, my feeling is that Europe prevailed in the past 10 years, but America evolved.

beedogs 15y ago
> 10 years ago ... websites were of laughable quality Did anyone have a reasonable-looking website in 2001? How is that an American phenomenon? > Now, I can only dream of Europe having things like America's NetFlix, Internet industry, smart phone usage, creative restaurants, hotels, and much more. The service industry is the only thing left throughout America, so it's no wonder it's the only one where innovation is taking place.
- tybris 15y ago
  > Did anyone have a reasonable-looking website in 2001? How is that an American phenomenon? Yes. European websites at the time were reasonably modern. e.g., a web shop http://replay.web.archive.org/20010614234849/http://www.bol.com/index.html http://replay.web.archive.org/20010614234849/http://www.bol.... American websites were always one big mess, lacking any form of tasteful design or functionality. http://replay.web.archive.org/20000516060156/http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/subst/home/home.html http://replay.web.archive.org/20000516060156/http://www.amaz...
  - beedogs 15y ago
    I'm really not sure what kind of point you're trying to make with that terrible comparison; those two companies couldn't be any more different. Show me what European storefront sites looked like in 2001.
- 15y ago

thisisfmu 15y ago

returning from a recent trip to continental Europe I was shocked at how dilapidated most of the UK looks compared to Germany and Austria. I wonder to what extent this is a matter of cultural priorities and taste rather than an indicator of economic well-being however.