6 ms·

Against Netflix

55 points by leopold_a 6y ago

yoz-y 6y ago
There is a little bit of irony in this. > Yglesias, turn off the TV! Write more books instead! Heck, write more tweets, if you prefer! If all the "great minds" stopped watching tv (and by extension reading tweets, reading books, listening to shows...) who would be left to enjoy their work? We will eventually end up in a state where there will be no longer possible to have a cultural homogeneity as we have today (e.g.: a very sizeable population has seen game of thrones and can discuss it). This approach would bring that moment closer.
- xamuel 6y ago
  You can already see this in academia, where there are sometimes more people trying to write papers than there are people actually reading said papers
- tangjurine 6y ago
  There's a little irony, but I feel like the Netflix Originals aren't really written, but carefully designed to appeal to the masses. They always felt a bit artificial to me. I think the article is saying to spend time reading things that give rise to creative ideas rather than things that are just a time suck, i.e. Netflix.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    Interesting. I tend to cross information from various shows to form new ideas.
tyingq 6y ago
Can't quite tell if this is satire. Like: "Netflix (and its imitators) produce too many TV shows that are too good—and too easy to binge" Really? I have to search pretty hard to find any of the original programming from Netflix, Prime, etc, that's "good". There's some, but it's pretty scarce. They seem to be deliberately targeting volume of content to cover the widest variety of niches...not quality.
- dudul 6y ago
  I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I also struggle to find shows I find "good", but hey, to each their own. It's probably more the fact that they can be so aggressively binged that the author is criticizing. Maybe the word he was looking for was "addictive". Shows are not especially good, but they can be very addictive when leveraging cliffhangers, plot twists, etc.
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  This. They produce medium to low quality stuff en masse. Also them notoriously pulling the plug on their shows completely disincentives investing time in it (I typically wait till season 3-4).
  - the_only_law 6y ago
    Isn't there a (non) joke that they just buy whatever the rights to whatever to random independent films anyone makes
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  Yeah that surprised me, I'm absolutely blown away with how little fresh content I get on Netflix. During lockdown I have scrolled through it every single day and if I didn't know that lockdown was extremely profitable for companies like them I would have thought they were on life support there has been so little content added over the past few months. Decided to cancel it this week, going to invest in a Plex server instead.
  - dismantlethesun 6y ago
    Well they were kind of on life support because during the lockdown no new movies or shows were being made. Actors had to abide by lockdown rules too. The first set of new movies on Netflix were indie films which had 2-3 people in them. Then after work-from-home settled into a routine, they finished production of films that were already filmed in 2018 but were unedited. After that, they began to release shows from S. Korea, where the lockdown was lifted enough for production to continue.
ctvo 6y ago
I hope the author does video games next. The nerve of people spending their time how they want vs. being constantly productive. It's simply unacceptable.
- cosmic_quanta 6y ago
  Video games are more of a time-sink for me than Netflix, but I comfort myself in the fact that at least video games are interactive, i.e. not "turn-my-brain-off" moments.
- lilfrost 6y ago
  Yeah if the masses want opium we should give it to them at cost /s
  - _jal 6y ago
    Who is 'we', in the above formulation?
- fireattack 6y ago
  Video game is already mentioned and contrasted in the article. The difference is (to paraphrase what the author says) playing video games excessively is already frowned on. Watching Netflix is not.
  - ctvo 6y ago
    I disagree that video games are frowned upon. For certain demographics (young men, 12-35), it's expected behavior. We actually celebrate women getting into video games (iOS / Android "casual" friendly games).
    - fireattack 6y ago
      I mean, I disagree with most of the article so..
- MrLeap 6y ago
olivierestsage 6y ago
My wife and I recently quit watching TV altogether -- we used to watch a movie nearly every night -- and have switched to reading. We are both sleeping better -- a lot better. I find myself wanting to recommend it to everyone I know who has trouble sleeping, but it's quite tricky (maybe even impossible) to talk about quitting TV without coming off as horribly snobbish/elitist. Edit: the very negative reactions so far in this thread are an example of what I mean. But I do get it, since prior to quitting myself, hearing something like this probably would've pissed me off.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- phaedryx 6y ago
  I've found reading before bed is better as well.
- okokok___ 6y ago
  The good thing about this is that there is an endless amount of books out there as well. As the article author says, some people are running out of shows to watch on Netflix. You will literally never run out of books to read.
  - nasalgoat 6y ago
    My inability to find quality hard sci-fi I haven't already read would beg to disagree.
    - silicon2401 6y ago
      That's a good point. It's easy to 'never run out of books'. It's quite easy to 'run out of books in the particular category I like'. If anybody has recommendations for books like Zombie (fiction) or Children of Time (a novel told in part from the perspective of an advanced, non-human society), I'd be very happy to hear them.
    - Yetanfou 6y ago
teraku 6y ago
> Simply put, Netflix (and its imitators) produce too many TV shows that are too good—and too easy to binge. I find most shows on Netflix to not be that good. I drop them within minutes.
- samirillian 6y ago
  Yeah netflix is more like the raw cookie dough of tv. You know it's just eggs sugar and butter but goddamn if you don't love it.
- q3k 6y ago
  Same. For all the supposed great shows and films out there, I watched a total of zero minutes of TV or films this year - down from dozens/hundreds of hours last year.
  - teraku 6y ago
    I probably watch 1-2 shows over the course of the year on netflix, with an occasional film here and there if I'm interested. And all of them together with my partner, who watches many more shows and films than me.
    - q3k 6y ago
      To me it seems like all of modern streaming media (what's on Netflix, HBO, ...) basically collapsed to be this amorphous blob that mostly hits the same stylistic and emotional notes, regardless of genre. I might be getting old/jaded. It might also be because I used to have better access to arthouse cinemas that played more experimental, independent titles, while now I'm at the mercy of whatever is available on streaming services. So I end up just supplementing that by watching weird stuff on YouTube, which is somewhat suboptimal.
      - teraku 6y ago
        I have not experienced the "old age" of arthouses. But from talks to older people in the "scene" it's become a lot of mishmash and the same old story over and over that it's really rare to be intrigued by it. Just saying that, because there still are some art houses here (although not sure if that's still the case post-corona), but most of their films don't intrigue me. Sometimes they do, and I'm always a bit bummed to see that the venues are half-empty when I go.
yakz 6y ago
I think it's at least a little bit insulting to tell adults how they should be spending their time. Whether someone else is productive with their "free time" or not is simply none of your business.
- VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
  you mean you don't support government regulation of tv time for adults because it would be for "the greater good"? sounds like you might be on the "wrong" side of the political spectrum in 2020.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    I wish I could understand your political comment. I've become so sick of politics and see both "sides" as being wrong, that I don't even know which is being referenced.
    - VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
      regulating the minutiae of people's everyday lives = big government aka leftist aka democrats. remember when Michael Bloomberg tried to pass a "public health" regulation telling New Yorkers how big their soda was allowed to be [0]? it's that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugary_drinks_portion_cap_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugary_drinks_portion_cap_rule
      - stnmtn 6y ago
        I don't understand, this was repealed very fast and now you are trying to use slippery slope argument to say democrats are going to somehow regulate how many hours of TV you can do in a day? Are you living in 2014 still? When has anything like the failed soda drink ban happened since then?
        giantg2 6y ago
        I think Philly has a soda tax now. I'd say it's the idea (for both sides depending on the specific issue) of living with the psychological weight of knowing that additional taxes and restrictions are constantly suggested which would impact your lifestyle.
gnomesteel 6y ago
I wonder if anyone has ever argued that books were too good?
- kidman007 6y ago
  They certainly have. Sure, I could afford to watch less tv. I do have many hobbies writing, photography, etc. That I don’t as much as I’d like because of TV. However, I’m one person and TV is a great way for me to hang out with my SO. My beef w/ this is blog post is the fetishization of productivity. There are over 7 billion people on the planet. We’re getting a covid vaccine in under a year. I’m pretty sure Netflix isn’t stopping us from continuing to develop. It’s okay for people to take their shoes off. I’ll concede that the alcoholism comparison is fair in the sense that it is addicting. However, you don’t see too many people losing their job or destroying their relationships because of Netflix. I guess what I’m saying is that the answer is balance.
- D13Fd 6y ago
  For me, fiction books are the worst of all of them. When I get into a series of fiction books, I tend to get so obsessed that I stay up all night reading, often multiple nights in a week. That rarely happens to me with TV or video games. I haven't read a fiction book in about 10 years because I swore them off entirely. I typically watch about an hour of TV as I wind down for the night, and I often play hours of video games if I can (often child care obligations interfere). But at least I can do those things without losing sleep.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Yes. Somewhat famously, Socrates said that writing would breed forgetfulness. And that children could not understand the difference between fantasy and reality. The radio, likewise, was considered too compelling by some.
arrow7000 6y ago
I was mostly on board right up until the point where he dismisses Europeans and glorifies the American spirit. I thought HN was above such small-minded nationalistic prejudice.
- the_only_law 6y ago
  From the home page, this seems to be a common theme of the authors' works.
- mrtranscendence 6y ago
  The author is apparently from Germany, for what it's worth. Don't know if that makes his statement any palatable.
  - kmeisthax 6y ago
    Is this like the inverse of Americans that always look to the EU as always better somehow?
giantg2 6y ago
A lot of the shows aren't really that great, in my opinion. It's that the alternatives have become less attractive, mostly due to costs and liabilities. Watching TV is cheap. Going out to eat, to bars, etc is increasingly expensive. Hobbies like gardening require land. Hobbies like AutoX and track days generally require consumables, tools/accessories, and insurance. Even just regular street insurance and health insurance are a major cost. All while wages have stagnated for decades. Why claim that we are wasting great minds by watching TV? Would people actually be doing productive things otherwise? I would think it would be alternate relaxing things.
lameiam 6y ago
bah
scrollaway 6y ago
The article opens with "Too many great minds waste away their time watching Netflix.". I'm flagging this ridiculous shit and you should too. Either this is a poorly-written satire piece, or it's a troll-fest waiting to happen.
live_video 6y ago
I think every generation tries to make this argument or one similar, which boils down to "a significant portion of the population is devoting it attention to something that didn't exist 20 years ago and that's very bad!". I'd argue there actually much more diverse content to consume in Netflix with a large portion being 'educational' and 'informative'
circlefavshape 6y ago
"Look, if that’s what the Europeans want to do, they should go for it. But part of what makes America special is a certain harshness—first embodied in the Puritans and their quest to settle America’s unforgiving wilderness. Great achievements, new ideas, ingenious inventions emerge from a culture that prizes travail and perseverance, not one that prioritizes comfort and ephemeral satisfaction." Oh. My. Fucking. God.
- giantg2 6y ago
  Where's this wilderness that I can go lay claim to and homestead? The world has changed, and it seems the author has not realized it. Many people who own land had to use lawyers/contracts to get it and may not even own the water or mineral rights. The world isn't simple. It's still harsh, but is so now in the courts and bureaucracy instead of in the fields and natural perils.
TrueGeek 6y ago
We recently started a routine in our house where at 7pm we turn off the TV. My wife is going through a master's program and studies. My son, like many others right now, is doing distance learning high school so he needs a bit more time to study, which is what prompted this. I had many months of 60 hours work weeks earlier this year so I've just been binging sci-fi on my Kindle and it's been great. I've enjoyed it much more than Netflix. I don't blame anyone for binging TV. We don't all need to spend our nights writing a novel or the next great app. When our family was younger we spent a year or so very proud of the fact that we NEVER watched TV. Then I heard a quote "when you watch TV your brain activity level is lower than when you are sleeping." I thought that sounded wonderful and immediately went out and purchased a TV.
- paublyrne 6y ago
  I don't turn it on until at least 8PM. TV on during the daytime hours is somehow depressing, unless it's some sort of live event.
harryh 6y ago
The author of this essay is a college undergraduate[1]. He has never had a real job. He has never raised children. He has never really been responsible for anything. He's never been tired (no, staying up all night to finish a school assignment doesn't count). His opinion on how adults spend their time is meaningless. Flagged. 1. https://www.linkedin.com/in/leopold-aschenbrenner/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/leopold-aschenbrenner/
- olivierestsage 6y ago
  Well, I'm an adult who's had those experiences you mention, and my experience has led me to similar conclusions to those of the author. I don't think it's fair to discount what he's saying by referencing his identity rather than the content of his ideas.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- Audiophilip 6y ago
  >His opinion on how adults spend their time is meaningless. Flagged. I'm sorry, but in my humble opinion, just because you don't agree with the content of a linked post, it doesn't mean it's not worth of a constructive discussion here on HN and should be flagged. This is ad hominem.
- leopold_a 6y ago
  I find it quite unfortunate that an ad hominem attack has removed this post from public discussion (due to the flagging). I thought HN was above such things!
  - laputan_machine 6y ago
    It is not an ad-hominem, ad-hominem is a personal attack on your character, ignoring the argument. All of those things the parent posted are accurately used to discredit your argument. Saying "you have bad hair therefore your argument is bad" is ad-hominem. Saying "This person has never worked a 9-6 office job while supporting 2 kids, a stay-at-home-partner and a mortgage; therefore they are unqualified to make such statements on how adults should spend their time" is a completely legitimate argument to make, it is not a personal attack.
tomrod 6y ago
I quite enjoy Netflix. I use it for occasional white noise when I am working. I enjoy their content, and wish there was more of it. It's okay to consume media in moderation. Netflix, flying a kite, fishing, game night with friends, and so on. If that is all one does, it interferes with Maslow's other needs. I don't see a need to go to battle against Netflix, however, but perhaps teaching discipline and moderation in schools would be beneficial to society as a whole. Sam Harris had a recent podcast episode on this topic. The discussant brought up the interesting point that cost of binging has decreased. Economics 101 would suggest that if we were rational and preferred more show consumption that we will consume more. A handy heuristic. So, if you personally find your consumption is too high relative to your production, their suggestion was to increase the costs to consume.
ajsnigrutin 6y ago
Binge watching is great... I can watch a series in a week or two, and be done with it... compare that to having to be at home, every tuesday at 9pm, or setting the awkward vcr controlls, hoping the timer setting will actually start recording at the right time, and then watching at some other time... Then waiting for 3, 4 months for the next season, forgetting what happened in the last, etc.
hprotagonist 6y ago
Speaking for myself, i don't find this personally convincing. I am notorious for watching the pilot for a show and deciding "that was great! i've had enough!" and never finishing it. I believe the last episodic show i've genuinely finished was Avatar: The Last Airbender -- and even then, i haven't seen any of Korra and have no desire to.
- tomrod 6y ago
  We started with Korra and just finished A:TLA. Both are great shows.
- jfengel 6y ago
  Korra is promising but doesn't quite deliver. It sets up a more mature world that engages seriously with a lot of the difficulties inherent in the whole Bender and Avatar classes of people. It's more political and interpersonal. But it's also less fun, and especially after the second season, rather muddled in its storytelling. That is, apparently, partially due to the creators being jerked around by the production company. It's very good nonetheless, and if you have time to kill, I'd say it's worth a try. You'll know in a few episodes if it doesn't work for you. (It was in some ways rather too dark for me.)
1970-01-01 6y ago
Next up: Against Sugar when using Netflix. How much health is lost when people eat chocolate instead of vegetables during Netflix? Am I being ironic? Who knows, you still "read my blog".
myrandomcomment 6y ago
So for me this pandemic has caused me to be bored with Netflix, TV, all of it. There is zero that holds my attention. I find nothing of interest on Netflix anymore. My friends say have you seen bla...it’s amazing. I cannot make it past the first 2 episodes without being bored. I am working on reading, finish some games I never finished and just spending time with the family playing games.
nickcw 6y ago
Has anyone got any facts about this they can link? So TV (including streaming) hours watched per year for the last decade or two?
samirillian 6y ago
I was trying to read a play by Brecht last night but my partner made me watch Star Trek...Voyager. smh.
josu 6y ago
I'm pretty sure that where OP's head is there isn't good enough wifi signal to watch Netflix.
ilikecakeandpie 6y ago
It's not Netflix's fault that one lacks will power to turn off the screen and chooses to watch eight hours of content vs doing other tasks. There's also nothing wrong with watching eight hours of content if it is one's intent.
shrikant 6y ago
I've talked about this before on here [0], and would suggest to the author that he might want to consider disabling "auto advance to next episode". The tiny amount of friction induced by having to explicitly click on "Next Episode" gives you perhaps a few extra seconds to consider if you really need to watch another episode, or perhaps get some other shit done. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22256625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22256625
mbrd 6y ago
His comments about Matthew Yglesias ("Yglesias, turn off the TV! Write more books instead! Heck, write more tweets, if you prefer!") made me think of Neil Gaiman's blog post [1] about George RR Martin: > George R.R. Martin is not your bitch. > This is a useful thing to know, perhaps a useful thing to point out when you find yourself thinking that possibly George is, indeed, your bitch, and should be out there typing what you want to read right now. > People are not machines. Writers and artists aren't machines. > You're complaining about George doing other things than writing the books you want to read as if your buying the first book in the series was a contract with him: that you would pay over your ten dollars, and George for his part would spend every waking hour until the series was done, writing the rest of the books for you. [1] https://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html https://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.ht...
- dralley 6y ago
  Most fans have stopped complaining and simply given up by now.
sybercecurity 6y ago
Things never change. Now more than ever! I'm old enough to remember when this was said about cable TV, video games, social media, etc. One thing I always wonder is how do you know "great minds" are succumbing to this insidious threat? Maybe it is only mediocre minds and one of the factors that make "great minds" exceptional is self-control over base instincts like entertainment?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
cjdell 6y ago
How about, as a compromise, quality over quantity. Most of trash of Netflix only last one or two seasons anyway and is then forgotten about. Stop making terrible sci-fi like Another Life and invest in quality shows like The Expanse which are long lived and remembered.
clpwn 6y ago
To me, this article reads as one of the two main "angels sitting on my shoulders" when I reflect anxiously about whether I'm spending my time on this earth in The Right Way. The other voice argues that I will be healthier and more capable of producing the things I actually want to produce if I can just stop being so damn stressed about "wasting" an evening playing video games every once in a while. Why buy into the myth that the meaning of life is maximizing productivity? Some people have biases against specific forms of media (video games and TV take especially big punches) they feel are the Fentanyl of art in a world that otherwise would be glasses of wine. In the end it always feels like a debate about the right ratios of consuming vs. producing, which I feel like is worth reflecting about but will be different for every personality.
pedro596 6y ago
If we generalize the author position from Netflix to any other hobbies... I would ask, how great minds can continue to create great stuff without experiencing life and living like humans that they are? Instead of just keeping in mind "I need to be productive!" people (probably) should do whatever they want, fight their fights and strive to do what they love. Do you think the work of a genius would be better if at some point in their life we (society) had put him in a cell and obligated him to create more "awesome stuff" 24h a day?
juanuys 6y ago
One has to commend the BBC for sticking to things like the 3-parter miniseries. It's 2-3 hours of your life you've spent watching a quality drama with a conclusion, and no cliffhangers / "possible second season".
ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
https://harpers.org/archive/1932/10/in-praise-of-idleness/ https://harpers.org/archive/1932/10/in-praise-of-idleness/

55 points by leopold_a 6y ago

There is a little bit of irony in this. > Yglesias, turn off the TV! Write more books instead! Heck, write more tweets, if you prefer! If all the "great minds" stopped watching tv (and by extension reading tweets, reading books, listening to shows...) who would be left to enjoy their work? We will eventually end up in a state where there will be no longer possible to have a cultural homogeneity as we have today (e.g.: a very sizeable population has seen game of thrones and can discuss it). This approach would bring that moment closer.

xamuel 6y ago
You can already see this in academia, where there are sometimes more people trying to write papers than there are people actually reading said papers
tangjurine 6y ago
There's a little irony, but I feel like the Netflix Originals aren't really written, but carefully designed to appeal to the masses. They always felt a bit artificial to me. I think the article is saying to spend time reading things that give rise to creative ideas rather than things that are just a time suck, i.e. Netflix.
- giantg2 6y ago
  Interesting. I tend to cross information from various shows to form new ideas.

tyingq 6y ago

Can't quite tell if this is satire. Like: "Netflix (and its imitators) produce too many TV shows that are too good—and too easy to binge" Really? I have to search pretty hard to find any of the original programming from Netflix, Prime, etc, that's "good". There's some, but it's pretty scarce. They seem to be deliberately targeting volume of content to cover the widest variety of niches...not quality.

dudul 6y ago
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I also struggle to find shows I find "good", but hey, to each their own. It's probably more the fact that they can be so aggressively binged that the author is criticizing. Maybe the word he was looking for was "addictive". Shows are not especially good, but they can be very addictive when leveraging cliffhangers, plot twists, etc.
bitcharmer 6y ago
This. They produce medium to low quality stuff en masse. Also them notoriously pulling the plug on their shows completely disincentives investing time in it (I typically wait till season 3-4).
- the_only_law 6y ago
  Isn't there a (non) joke that they just buy whatever the rights to whatever to random independent films anyone makes
whywhywhywhy 6y ago
Yeah that surprised me, I'm absolutely blown away with how little fresh content I get on Netflix. During lockdown I have scrolled through it every single day and if I didn't know that lockdown was extremely profitable for companies like them I would have thought they were on life support there has been so little content added over the past few months. Decided to cancel it this week, going to invest in a Plex server instead.
- dismantlethesun 6y ago
  Well they were kind of on life support because during the lockdown no new movies or shows were being made. Actors had to abide by lockdown rules too. The first set of new movies on Netflix were indie films which had 2-3 people in them. Then after work-from-home settled into a routine, they finished production of films that were already filmed in 2018 but were unedited. After that, they began to release shows from S. Korea, where the lockdown was lifted enough for production to continue.

ctvo 6y ago

I hope the author does video games next. The nerve of people spending their time how they want vs. being constantly productive. It's simply unacceptable.

cosmic_quanta 6y ago
Video games are more of a time-sink for me than Netflix, but I comfort myself in the fact that at least video games are interactive, i.e. not "turn-my-brain-off" moments.
lilfrost 6y ago
Yeah if the masses want opium we should give it to them at cost /s
- _jal 6y ago
  Who is 'we', in the above formulation?
fireattack 6y ago
Video game is already mentioned and contrasted in the article. The difference is (to paraphrase what the author says) playing video games excessively is already frowned on. Watching Netflix is not.
- ctvo 6y ago
  I disagree that video games are frowned upon. For certain demographics (young men, 12-35), it's expected behavior. We actually celebrate women getting into video games (iOS / Android "casual" friendly games).
  - fireattack 6y ago
    I mean, I disagree with most of the article so..
MrLeap 6y ago

olivierestsage 6y ago

My wife and I recently quit watching TV altogether -- we used to watch a movie nearly every night -- and have switched to reading. We are both sleeping better -- a lot better. I find myself wanting to recommend it to everyone I know who has trouble sleeping, but it's quite tricky (maybe even impossible) to talk about quitting TV without coming off as horribly snobbish/elitist. Edit: the very negative reactions so far in this thread are an example of what I mean. But I do get it, since prior to quitting myself, hearing something like this probably would've pissed me off.

deleted 6y ago
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phaedryx 6y ago
I've found reading before bed is better as well.
okokok___ 6y ago
The good thing about this is that there is an endless amount of books out there as well. As the article author says, some people are running out of shows to watch on Netflix. You will literally never run out of books to read.
- nasalgoat 6y ago
  My inability to find quality hard sci-fi I haven't already read would beg to disagree.
  - silicon2401 6y ago
    That's a good point. It's easy to 'never run out of books'. It's quite easy to 'run out of books in the particular category I like'. If anybody has recommendations for books like Zombie (fiction) or Children of Time (a novel told in part from the perspective of an advanced, non-human society), I'd be very happy to hear them.
  - Yetanfou 6y ago

teraku 6y ago

> Simply put, Netflix (and its imitators) produce too many TV shows that are too good—and too easy to binge. I find most shows on Netflix to not be that good. I drop them within minutes.

samirillian 6y ago
Yeah netflix is more like the raw cookie dough of tv. You know it's just eggs sugar and butter but goddamn if you don't love it.
q3k 6y ago
Same. For all the supposed great shows and films out there, I watched a total of zero minutes of TV or films this year - down from dozens/hundreds of hours last year.
- teraku 6y ago
  I probably watch 1-2 shows over the course of the year on netflix, with an occasional film here and there if I'm interested. And all of them together with my partner, who watches many more shows and films than me.
  - q3k 6y ago
    To me it seems like all of modern streaming media (what's on Netflix, HBO, ...) basically collapsed to be this amorphous blob that mostly hits the same stylistic and emotional notes, regardless of genre. I might be getting old/jaded. It might also be because I used to have better access to arthouse cinemas that played more experimental, independent titles, while now I'm at the mercy of whatever is available on streaming services. So I end up just supplementing that by watching weird stuff on YouTube, which is somewhat suboptimal.
    - teraku 6y ago
      I have not experienced the "old age" of arthouses. But from talks to older people in the "scene" it's become a lot of mishmash and the same old story over and over that it's really rare to be intrigued by it. Just saying that, because there still are some art houses here (although not sure if that's still the case post-corona), but most of their films don't intrigue me. Sometimes they do, and I'm always a bit bummed to see that the venues are half-empty when I go.

yakz 6y ago

I think it's at least a little bit insulting to tell adults how they should be spending their time. Whether someone else is productive with their "free time" or not is simply none of your business.

VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
you mean you don't support government regulation of tv time for adults because it would be for "the greater good"? sounds like you might be on the "wrong" side of the political spectrum in 2020.
- giantg2 6y ago
  I wish I could understand your political comment. I've become so sick of politics and see both "sides" as being wrong, that I don't even know which is being referenced.
  - VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
    regulating the minutiae of people's everyday lives = big government aka leftist aka democrats. remember when Michael Bloomberg tried to pass a "public health" regulation telling New Yorkers how big their soda was allowed to be [0]? it's that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugary_drinks_portion_cap_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugary_drinks_portion_cap_rule
    - stnmtn 6y ago
      I don't understand, this was repealed very fast and now you are trying to use slippery slope argument to say democrats are going to somehow regulate how many hours of TV you can do in a day? Are you living in 2014 still? When has anything like the failed soda drink ban happened since then?
      - giantg2 6y ago
        I think Philly has a soda tax now. I'd say it's the idea (for both sides depending on the specific issue) of living with the psychological weight of knowing that additional taxes and restrictions are constantly suggested which would impact your lifestyle.

gnomesteel 6y ago

I wonder if anyone has ever argued that books were too good?

kidman007 6y ago
They certainly have. Sure, I could afford to watch less tv. I do have many hobbies writing, photography, etc. That I don’t as much as I’d like because of TV. However, I’m one person and TV is a great way for me to hang out with my SO. My beef w/ this is blog post is the fetishization of productivity. There are over 7 billion people on the planet. We’re getting a covid vaccine in under a year. I’m pretty sure Netflix isn’t stopping us from continuing to develop. It’s okay for people to take their shoes off. I’ll concede that the alcoholism comparison is fair in the sense that it is addicting. However, you don’t see too many people losing their job or destroying their relationships because of Netflix. I guess what I’m saying is that the answer is balance.
D13Fd 6y ago
For me, fiction books are the worst of all of them. When I get into a series of fiction books, I tend to get so obsessed that I stay up all night reading, often multiple nights in a week. That rarely happens to me with TV or video games. I haven't read a fiction book in about 10 years because I swore them off entirely. I typically watch about an hour of TV as I wind down for the night, and I often play hours of video games if I can (often child care obligations interfere). But at least I can do those things without losing sleep.
Pfhreak 6y ago
Yes. Somewhat famously, Socrates said that writing would breed forgetfulness. And that children could not understand the difference between fantasy and reality. The radio, likewise, was considered too compelling by some.

arrow7000 6y ago

I was mostly on board right up until the point where he dismisses Europeans and glorifies the American spirit. I thought HN was above such small-minded nationalistic prejudice.

the_only_law 6y ago
From the home page, this seems to be a common theme of the authors' works.
mrtranscendence 6y ago
The author is apparently from Germany, for what it's worth. Don't know if that makes his statement any palatable.
- kmeisthax 6y ago
  Is this like the inverse of Americans that always look to the EU as always better somehow?

giantg2 6y ago

A lot of the shows aren't really that great, in my opinion. It's that the alternatives have become less attractive, mostly due to costs and liabilities. Watching TV is cheap. Going out to eat, to bars, etc is increasingly expensive. Hobbies like gardening require land. Hobbies like AutoX and track days generally require consumables, tools/accessories, and insurance. Even just regular street insurance and health insurance are a major cost. All while wages have stagnated for decades. Why claim that we are wasting great minds by watching TV? Would people actually be doing productive things otherwise? I would think it would be alternate relaxing things.

lameiam 6y ago

bah

scrollaway 6y ago

The article opens with "Too many great minds waste away their time watching Netflix.". I'm flagging this ridiculous shit and you should too. Either this is a poorly-written satire piece, or it's a troll-fest waiting to happen.

live_video 6y ago

I think every generation tries to make this argument or one similar, which boils down to "a significant portion of the population is devoting it attention to something that didn't exist 20 years ago and that's very bad!". I'd argue there actually much more diverse content to consume in Netflix with a large portion being 'educational' and 'informative'

circlefavshape 6y ago

"Look, if that’s what the Europeans want to do, they should go for it. But part of what makes America special is a certain harshness—first embodied in the Puritans and their quest to settle America’s unforgiving wilderness. Great achievements, new ideas, ingenious inventions emerge from a culture that prizes travail and perseverance, not one that prioritizes comfort and ephemeral satisfaction." Oh. My. Fucking. God.

giantg2 6y ago
Where's this wilderness that I can go lay claim to and homestead? The world has changed, and it seems the author has not realized it. Many people who own land had to use lawyers/contracts to get it and may not even own the water or mineral rights. The world isn't simple. It's still harsh, but is so now in the courts and bureaucracy instead of in the fields and natural perils.

TrueGeek 6y ago

We recently started a routine in our house where at 7pm we turn off the TV. My wife is going through a master's program and studies. My son, like many others right now, is doing distance learning high school so he needs a bit more time to study, which is what prompted this. I had many months of 60 hours work weeks earlier this year so I've just been binging sci-fi on my Kindle and it's been great. I've enjoyed it much more than Netflix. I don't blame anyone for binging TV. We don't all need to spend our nights writing a novel or the next great app. When our family was younger we spent a year or so very proud of the fact that we NEVER watched TV. Then I heard a quote "when you watch TV your brain activity level is lower than when you are sleeping." I thought that sounded wonderful and immediately went out and purchased a TV.

paublyrne 6y ago
I don't turn it on until at least 8PM. TV on during the daytime hours is somehow depressing, unless it's some sort of live event.

harryh 6y ago

The author of this essay is a college undergraduate[1]. He has never had a real job. He has never raised children. He has never really been responsible for anything. He's never been tired (no, staying up all night to finish a school assignment doesn't count). His opinion on how adults spend their time is meaningless. Flagged. 1. https://www.linkedin.com/in/leopold-aschenbrenner/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/leopold-aschenbrenner/

olivierestsage 6y ago
Well, I'm an adult who's had those experiences you mention, and my experience has led me to similar conclusions to those of the author. I don't think it's fair to discount what he's saying by referencing his identity rather than the content of his ideas.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Audiophilip 6y ago
>His opinion on how adults spend their time is meaningless. Flagged. I'm sorry, but in my humble opinion, just because you don't agree with the content of a linked post, it doesn't mean it's not worth of a constructive discussion here on HN and should be flagged. This is ad hominem.
leopold_a 6y ago
I find it quite unfortunate that an ad hominem attack has removed this post from public discussion (due to the flagging). I thought HN was above such things!
- laputan_machine 6y ago
  It is not an ad-hominem, ad-hominem is a personal attack on your character, ignoring the argument. All of those things the parent posted are accurately used to discredit your argument. Saying "you have bad hair therefore your argument is bad" is ad-hominem. Saying "This person has never worked a 9-6 office job while supporting 2 kids, a stay-at-home-partner and a mortgage; therefore they are unqualified to make such statements on how adults should spend their time" is a completely legitimate argument to make, it is not a personal attack.

tomrod 6y ago

I quite enjoy Netflix. I use it for occasional white noise when I am working. I enjoy their content, and wish there was more of it. It's okay to consume media in moderation. Netflix, flying a kite, fishing, game night with friends, and so on. If that is all one does, it interferes with Maslow's other needs. I don't see a need to go to battle against Netflix, however, but perhaps teaching discipline and moderation in schools would be beneficial to society as a whole. Sam Harris had a recent podcast episode on this topic. The discussant brought up the interesting point that cost of binging has decreased. Economics 101 would suggest that if we were rational and preferred more show consumption that we will consume more. A handy heuristic. So, if you personally find your consumption is too high relative to your production, their suggestion was to increase the costs to consume.

ajsnigrutin 6y ago

Binge watching is great... I can watch a series in a week or two, and be done with it... compare that to having to be at home, every tuesday at 9pm, or setting the awkward vcr controlls, hoping the timer setting will actually start recording at the right time, and then watching at some other time... Then waiting for 3, 4 months for the next season, forgetting what happened in the last, etc.

hprotagonist 6y ago

Speaking for myself, i don't find this personally convincing. I am notorious for watching the pilot for a show and deciding "that was great! i've had enough!" and never finishing it. I believe the last episodic show i've genuinely finished was Avatar: The Last Airbender -- and even then, i haven't seen any of Korra and have no desire to.

tomrod 6y ago
We started with Korra and just finished A:TLA. Both are great shows.
jfengel 6y ago
Korra is promising but doesn't quite deliver. It sets up a more mature world that engages seriously with a lot of the difficulties inherent in the whole Bender and Avatar classes of people. It's more political and interpersonal. But it's also less fun, and especially after the second season, rather muddled in its storytelling. That is, apparently, partially due to the creators being jerked around by the production company. It's very good nonetheless, and if you have time to kill, I'd say it's worth a try. You'll know in a few episodes if it doesn't work for you. (It was in some ways rather too dark for me.)

1970-01-01 6y ago

Next up: Against Sugar when using Netflix. How much health is lost when people eat chocolate instead of vegetables during Netflix? Am I being ironic? Who knows, you still "read my blog".

myrandomcomment 6y ago

So for me this pandemic has caused me to be bored with Netflix, TV, all of it. There is zero that holds my attention. I find nothing of interest on Netflix anymore. My friends say have you seen bla...it’s amazing. I cannot make it past the first 2 episodes without being bored. I am working on reading, finish some games I never finished and just spending time with the family playing games.

nickcw 6y ago

Has anyone got any facts about this they can link? So TV (including streaming) hours watched per year for the last decade or two?

samirillian 6y ago

I was trying to read a play by Brecht last night but my partner made me watch Star Trek...Voyager. smh.

josu 6y ago

I'm pretty sure that where OP's head is there isn't good enough wifi signal to watch Netflix.

ilikecakeandpie 6y ago

It's not Netflix's fault that one lacks will power to turn off the screen and chooses to watch eight hours of content vs doing other tasks. There's also nothing wrong with watching eight hours of content if it is one's intent.

shrikant 6y ago

I've talked about this before on here [0], and would suggest to the author that he might want to consider disabling "auto advance to next episode". The tiny amount of friction induced by having to explicitly click on "Next Episode" gives you perhaps a few extra seconds to consider if you really need to watch another episode, or perhaps get some other shit done. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22256625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22256625

mbrd 6y ago

His comments about Matthew Yglesias ("Yglesias, turn off the TV! Write more books instead! Heck, write more tweets, if you prefer!") made me think of Neil Gaiman's blog post [1] about George RR Martin: > George R.R. Martin is not your bitch. > This is a useful thing to know, perhaps a useful thing to point out when you find yourself thinking that possibly George is, indeed, your bitch, and should be out there typing what you want to read right now. > People are not machines. Writers and artists aren't machines. > You're complaining about George doing other things than writing the books you want to read as if your buying the first book in the series was a contract with him: that you would pay over your ten dollars, and George for his part would spend every waking hour until the series was done, writing the rest of the books for you. [1] https://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html https://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.ht...

dralley 6y ago
Most fans have stopped complaining and simply given up by now.

sybercecurity 6y ago

Things never change. Now more than ever! I'm old enough to remember when this was said about cable TV, video games, social media, etc. One thing I always wonder is how do you know "great minds" are succumbing to this insidious threat? Maybe it is only mediocre minds and one of the factors that make "great minds" exceptional is self-control over base instincts like entertainment?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

cjdell 6y ago

How about, as a compromise, quality over quantity. Most of trash of Netflix only last one or two seasons anyway and is then forgotten about. Stop making terrible sci-fi like Another Life and invest in quality shows like The Expanse which are long lived and remembered.

clpwn 6y ago

To me, this article reads as one of the two main "angels sitting on my shoulders" when I reflect anxiously about whether I'm spending my time on this earth in The Right Way. The other voice argues that I will be healthier and more capable of producing the things I actually want to produce if I can just stop being so damn stressed about "wasting" an evening playing video games every once in a while. Why buy into the myth that the meaning of life is maximizing productivity? Some people have biases against specific forms of media (video games and TV take especially big punches) they feel are the Fentanyl of art in a world that otherwise would be glasses of wine. In the end it always feels like a debate about the right ratios of consuming vs. producing, which I feel like is worth reflecting about but will be different for every personality.

pedro596 6y ago

If we generalize the author position from Netflix to any other hobbies... I would ask, how great minds can continue to create great stuff without experiencing life and living like humans that they are? Instead of just keeping in mind "I need to be productive!" people (probably) should do whatever they want, fight their fights and strive to do what they love. Do you think the work of a genius would be better if at some point in their life we (society) had put him in a cell and obligated him to create more "awesome stuff" 24h a day?

juanuys 6y ago

One has to commend the BBC for sticking to things like the 3-parter miniseries. It's 2-3 hours of your life you've spent watching a quality drama with a conclusion, and no cliffhangers / "possible second season".

ulisesrmzroche 6y ago

https://harpers.org/archive/1932/10/in-praise-of-idleness/ https://harpers.org/archive/1932/10/in-praise-of-idleness/