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I was a Math undergrad when I first read it and I think the main reaction I got from faculty was 'dismissal' and the main reaction I got from peers was 'indiffe

by Zhyl 6y ago

I was a Math undergrad when I first read it and I think the main reaction I got from faculty was 'dismissal' and the main reaction I got from peers was 'indifference' and, in one case 'annoyance'. I think it took root in the pop-math education space [0,1], but overall I think most of the Mathematical world has dismissed it as trivial at best and unnecessarily disruptive at worst. It's a shame, because I feel that understanding why Tau makes equations and concepts easier for people to grasp and build intuitions around is key to understanding why people generally find maths difficult and frustrating, and can give some guidance on how to bring down that barrier/activation energy. [0] Vi Hart, Pi is Wrong (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG7vhMMXagQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG7vhMMXagQ) [1] Numberphile, Pi vs Tau Smackdown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPv1UV0rD8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPv1UV0rD8U)

threatofrain 6y ago
People are looking at a bigger delta of improvement than that, IMO, but that also means they only want big commits from big names. The Tau thing really is too trivial, which means it may be outweighed by friction alone.
- Zhyl 6y ago
  Yeah, the circle constant is considered 'solved' and has been a well understood concept since... (googles) .. oh wow, 2560 BCE [0], with pi being used as the symbol for the last 400 odd years [1]. It's understandable that there wouldn't be much appetite to tamper with that if there isn't a gosh darned good reason. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#History [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#Adoption_of_the_symbol_%CF%80 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#Adoption_of_the_symbol_%CF%... (Interesting to note the original coining of Pi was π/δ for what we now call Pi (circumference over diameter) and π/ρ for what we are calling Tau (circumference over radius).)
  - alisonkisk 6y ago
    Tau looks too much like Pi. It should be Rho for Rotation.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - Zhyl 6y ago
      Thanks, Alison.
chriswarbo 6y ago
I think there's more basic opportunity for intuition and learning than pi/tau, which is using turns for angles. We tend to use degrees, which is less direct and requires memorisation/familiarity with magic numbers like 30, 45, 60, 90, 180, 720, etc. It takes more work to translate these numbers back and forth into angles (e.g. clock hands or pie charts) compared to twelfth, eighth, sixth, fourth, half, one, two, etc. turns. I think degrees should be left as a historical curiosity, like gradians, rather than the default we reach for in everyday life, from a young age (I can also see them being a nice 'mental maths shortcut', for those who are into such things). I know many people struggle with fractions, which degrees can avoid (at least, on a surface level), but I don't know whether the highly composite nature of 360 would help, and fractions hinder, outside of classroom-style exercises. For example, 90 + 45 = 135 is easier to calculate than 1/4 + 1/8 = 3/8, but the latter might still be more intuitive as an angle (e.g. if answering with a diagram, or by turning one's body); and for anything more complicated than that I'd still reach for a calculator, even with degrees. When problems require more sophistication than turns, we can introduce radians like we currently do. At that point tau makes sense as their conversion factor in equations, but it's still an unnecessary complexity when expressing angles; since any nice multiple of tau (or pi) can be divided through to get an even nicer number of turns.

by Zhyl 6y ago

threatofrain 6y ago

People are looking at a bigger delta of improvement than that, IMO, but that also means they only want big commits from big names. The Tau thing really is too trivial, which means it may be outweighed by friction alone.

Zhyl 6y ago
Yeah, the circle constant is considered 'solved' and has been a well understood concept since... (googles) .. oh wow, 2560 BCE [0], with pi being used as the symbol for the last 400 odd years [1]. It's understandable that there wouldn't be much appetite to tamper with that if there isn't a gosh darned good reason. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#History [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#Adoption_of_the_symbol_%CF%80 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#Adoption_of_the_symbol_%CF%... (Interesting to note the original coining of Pi was π/δ for what we now call Pi (circumference over diameter) and π/ρ for what we are calling Tau (circumference over radius).)
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  Tau looks too much like Pi. It should be Rho for Rotation.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Zhyl 6y ago
    Thanks, Alison.

chriswarbo 6y ago

I think there's more basic opportunity for intuition and learning than pi/tau, which is using turns for angles. We tend to use degrees, which is less direct and requires memorisation/familiarity with magic numbers like 30, 45, 60, 90, 180, 720, etc. It takes more work to translate these numbers back and forth into angles (e.g. clock hands or pie charts) compared to twelfth, eighth, sixth, fourth, half, one, two, etc. turns. I think degrees should be left as a historical curiosity, like gradians, rather than the default we reach for in everyday life, from a young age (I can also see them being a nice 'mental maths shortcut', for those who are into such things). I know many people struggle with fractions, which degrees can avoid (at least, on a surface level), but I don't know whether the highly composite nature of 360 would help, and fractions hinder, outside of classroom-style exercises. For example, 90 + 45 = 135 is easier to calculate than 1/4 + 1/8 = 3/8, but the latter might still be more intuitive as an angle (e.g. if answering with a diagram, or by turning one's body); and for anything more complicated than that I'd still reach for a calculator, even with degrees. When problems require more sophistication than turns, we can introduce radians like we currently do. At that point tau makes sense as their conversion factor in equations, but it's still an unnecessary complexity when expressing angles; since any nice multiple of tau (or pi) can be divided through to get an even nicer number of turns.