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I bet everyone there wants to get the vaccines out of the door as fast as possible. That does not mean that people are willing to cut corners where they should

I bet everyone there wants to get the vaccines out of the door as fast as possible. That does not mean that people are willing to cut corners where they should not.

tinus_hn 6y ago
So are you saying the UK cut corners?
- _Microft 6y ago
  That's one of the possibilities I had in mind when I started the thread. Look at my top level comment so see what I asked exactly.
  - tinus_hn 6y ago
    The answer to that is two-fold, of course. In the US and UK any hold-up is going to be blamed on the government, while in the EU it’ll be blamed on some nebulous, far away EU institution which is not elected anyway. Second one country might care more about a lot of people dying unnecessarily (besides the burden on the economy) than another. Clearly the EU has no issue with it and prioritizes theatrics instead. Again, probably has to do with the ease of blame shifting. Neither of these have anything to do with the typical excuses about ‘thoroughness’.
    - _Microft 6y ago
      "Clearly the EU has no issue with [a lot of people dying unnecessarily]." wat?
      - tinus_hn 6y ago
        Actions speak louder than words. 20 days delay is 100000 people dead. That’s the option they choose.
        _Microft 6y ago
        Sure, that's why I am convinced that they are working as fast as possible. (I'm fully aware by now that you seem perfectly fine with corner cutting, so no need to reiterate that again).
        tinus_hn 6y ago
        No, I don’t think the UK is cutting any more corners than the EU. That’s not the same thing as being ok with cutting corners.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      The EU didn't get the data to make a decision until just a couple days ago. The FDA and UK had a head start so of course they can make an informed decision sooner. Maybe the EU should say "We haven't seen the data, but it is good enough for the UK so good enough for us.". However what if the data shows it is good enough for anyone from north-west Europe, but not anywhere else in the world - then the approval would just needless divert the vaccine from where it would work (the UK) and give people it won't work on anyway a sore arm. This is an extreme, unlikely situation, but it is the type of thing they EU needs to know about.
      - tinus_hn 6y ago
        Do you have a source for that? I’m pretty sure the EU got the same information in advance, they say on the EMA website. Why would they not?
        bluGill 6y ago
        https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-receives-application-conditional-marketing-authorisation-covid-19-mrna-vaccine-bnt162b2 https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-receives-application-c... Note the date, December 1. I don't know why they got it later, just they did.
        tinus_hn 6y ago
        That’s the formal application. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-starts-second-rolling-review-covid-19-vaccine https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-starts-second-rolling-... Here’s when they actually started reviewing.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    Don't forget people have been working on coronavirus vaccinations for nearly a decade. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3586247/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3586247/

I bet everyone there wants to get the vaccines out of the door as fast as possible. That does not mean that people are willing to cut corners where they should not.

tinus_hn 6y ago

So are you saying the UK cut corners?

_Microft 6y ago
That's one of the possibilities I had in mind when I started the thread. Look at my top level comment so see what I asked exactly.
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  The answer to that is two-fold, of course. In the US and UK any hold-up is going to be blamed on the government, while in the EU it’ll be blamed on some nebulous, far away EU institution which is not elected anyway. Second one country might care more about a lot of people dying unnecessarily (besides the burden on the economy) than another. Clearly the EU has no issue with it and prioritizes theatrics instead. Again, probably has to do with the ease of blame shifting. Neither of these have anything to do with the typical excuses about ‘thoroughness’.
  - _Microft 6y ago
    "Clearly the EU has no issue with [a lot of people dying unnecessarily]." wat?
    - tinus_hn 6y ago
      Actions speak louder than words. 20 days delay is 100000 people dead. That’s the option they choose.
      - _Microft 6y ago
        Sure, that's why I am convinced that they are working as fast as possible. (I'm fully aware by now that you seem perfectly fine with corner cutting, so no need to reiterate that again).
        tinus_hn 6y ago
        No, I don’t think the UK is cutting any more corners than the EU. That’s not the same thing as being ok with cutting corners.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    The EU didn't get the data to make a decision until just a couple days ago. The FDA and UK had a head start so of course they can make an informed decision sooner. Maybe the EU should say "We haven't seen the data, but it is good enough for the UK so good enough for us.". However what if the data shows it is good enough for anyone from north-west Europe, but not anywhere else in the world - then the approval would just needless divert the vaccine from where it would work (the UK) and give people it won't work on anyway a sore arm. This is an extreme, unlikely situation, but it is the type of thing they EU needs to know about.
    - tinus_hn 6y ago
      Do you have a source for that? I’m pretty sure the EU got the same information in advance, they say on the EMA website. Why would they not?
      - bluGill 6y ago
        https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-receives-application-conditional-marketing-authorisation-covid-19-mrna-vaccine-bnt162b2 https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-receives-application-c... Note the date, December 1. I don't know why they got it later, just they did.
        tinus_hn 6y ago
        That’s the formal application. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-starts-second-rolling-review-covid-19-vaccine https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-starts-second-rolling-... Here’s when they actually started reviewing.
- DanBC 6y ago
  Don't forget people have been working on coronavirus vaccinations for nearly a decade. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3586247/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3586247/