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Yes. But sadly, that (in retrospect bad) decision has been part of the Java standard library for 20 years now. Here's a bug report from 2001 where the remember

Yes. But sadly, that (in retrospect bad) decision has been part of the Java standard library for 20 years now. Here's a bug report from 2001 where the rememberedException had accidentally changed its behaviour: https://bugs.java.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4523989 https://bugs.java.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4523989

bjarneh 6y ago
Incredible. It looks like much of the early Java web stuff was so poorly designed, it's baffling that it ever got accepted as part of anything. * Java Server Faces * Tag libraries * Portlets How did any of this become official Java technology.
- willtim 6y ago
  My jaw dropped the first time I learned that JSF was translated (not sure compiled is the right word) into Servlets full of print statements. And of course no JSF-based application has ever managed to produce valid well-formed HTML ever since.
  - bjarneh 6y ago
    It should be noted that you are now referring to the sanest part of Java Server Faces, i.e. its first template system: Java Server Pages or JSP. If think JSP that compiles to a bunch of Servlets filled with print statements is bad, you really have to look at the rest of that stuff; because it gets a lot worse :-) The stateful design, which fills up templates with a bunch of hidden html-input fields, in order to open web-pages in the same "state" as you left them and all sorts of other crap. You also need to look into Portlets, which "splits" up a web-pages into seemingly stand-alone components. These are then combined into horribly complicated Servlets as you deploy, where http paramters are namespaced with some random _portletId=lsøjfksjo1920 things in order to figure out which parameters goes to which "part of the web-page". Again, all of this is so bad, you'd think it was a joke; but it was Java's offering for web-development, and a huge number of people CHOOSE that technology in the early 2000's.
    - willtim 6y ago
      Oops, yes I mean't JSP not JSF. I almost want to learn more about JSF, out of morbid curiosity. I'm guessing one can't bookmark any pages and the back button is broken?
      - bjarneh 6y ago
        > out of morbid curiosity. I'm guessing one can't bookmark any pages and the back button is broken? Everything is broken :-) It really should be taught in schools as how not to design anything. I actually once worked on some extension (at least I think it was) of Java Server Faces which sent serialized Java objects as hidden html-input elements (base64-encoded binary blobs) back and forth with each request(!!). At least I hope that was not part of the core JSF technology. You really should run away from most of the early Java web-tech, it truly was horrid. It's also strange that a language, which was so "connected" to the early days of the web (even had their own html element <applet>) ended up with such strange things for web-development shortly after.

bjarneh 6y ago

Incredible. It looks like much of the early Java web stuff was so poorly designed, it's baffling that it ever got accepted as part of anything. * Java Server Faces * Tag libraries * Portlets How did any of this become official Java technology.

willtim 6y ago
My jaw dropped the first time I learned that JSF was translated (not sure compiled is the right word) into Servlets full of print statements. And of course no JSF-based application has ever managed to produce valid well-formed HTML ever since.
- bjarneh 6y ago
  It should be noted that you are now referring to the sanest part of Java Server Faces, i.e. its first template system: Java Server Pages or JSP. If think JSP that compiles to a bunch of Servlets filled with print statements is bad, you really have to look at the rest of that stuff; because it gets a lot worse :-) The stateful design, which fills up templates with a bunch of hidden html-input fields, in order to open web-pages in the same "state" as you left them and all sorts of other crap. You also need to look into Portlets, which "splits" up a web-pages into seemingly stand-alone components. These are then combined into horribly complicated Servlets as you deploy, where http paramters are namespaced with some random _portletId=lsøjfksjo1920 things in order to figure out which parameters goes to which "part of the web-page". Again, all of this is so bad, you'd think it was a joke; but it was Java's offering for web-development, and a huge number of people CHOOSE that technology in the early 2000's.
  - willtim 6y ago
    Oops, yes I mean't JSP not JSF. I almost want to learn more about JSF, out of morbid curiosity. I'm guessing one can't bookmark any pages and the back button is broken?
    - bjarneh 6y ago
      > out of morbid curiosity. I'm guessing one can't bookmark any pages and the back button is broken? Everything is broken :-) It really should be taught in schools as how not to design anything. I actually once worked on some extension (at least I think it was) of Java Server Faces which sent serialized Java objects as hidden html-input elements (base64-encoded binary blobs) back and forth with each request(!!). At least I hope that was not part of the core JSF technology. You really should run away from most of the early Java web-tech, it truly was horrid. It's also strange that a language, which was so "connected" to the early days of the web (even had their own html element <applet>) ended up with such strange things for web-development shortly after.