6 ms·

> Uber bypassed it by saying "we're a tech company" and left it to the drivers, making the enforcement of the law a lot harder. The original loophole that Uber

by kd5bjo 6y ago

> Uber bypassed it by saying "we're a tech company" and left it to the drivers, making the enforcement of the law a lot harder. The original loophole that Uber used was San Francisco’s different regulations between taxis and limo companies: The latter are less regulated but are allowed to accept prebooking, and not street hails. Uber realized that ordering a ride via a phone app is more convenient than trying to hail a passing taxi in many cases and can be served by a limo company instead.

emteycz 6y ago
What's the difference from calling by phone, also served by many limo companies?
buran77 6y ago
Not very familiar with the situation across the pond but in much of Europe the expectation from companies providing commercial transportation services are far higher than just booking method: - Drivers need a different, more expensive license or attestation that needs to be renewed periodically; - Car needs a more expensive commercial insurance that covers all passengers and cargo, to a much higher payout, not just the driver like most Uber drivers have; - Car needs to be inspected far more often to ensure it's roadworthy and can stand that driving regime for the future; - Prices are regulated because the taxi service is seen as closer to public transport than to personal one. So you don't see price fluctuations more than you'd see for the bus; - They need an authorization to serve an area (meaning they were checked according to local regulation); - The company is responsible for its employees in many ways; - And more. A restaurant's kitchen has higher requirements than your private one which makes owning and operating a commercial kitchen far more resource intensive than a private one. There's no "kitchen sharing" where you can sell food straight from your private kitchen, "infirmary sharing" where you can pretend you're a doctor or a hospital room, or "legal office sharing" where you can pretend to be a lawyer without meeting all the requirements imposed on those sectors. This is the loophole Uber exploited. Replace "car" with "house/room" and you get AirBnB. When they had enough of a head start they started complying with some regulation, while still acting like they're a different kind of service for what other regulation is concerned. They want to live on the border and pick and choose what applies to them, something no other commercial service is allowed to do. Except all the other disruptors who raise enough money to afford some fines while they still operate in a grey area. Cost of doing business.
- kd5bjo 6y ago
  These are per-city rules in much of the US, but the limo companies that Uber was originally subcontracting to had to meet similar requirements in San Francisco as what tou describe. Booking is just the test that was used to determine which set of regulations apply to any given compan. For example, taxi supply was artifically constrained by a medallion system, but there was no such limit on the number of limos allowed to operate. (Past tense b/c I don’t live there anymore and am not up-to-date with current developments) They certainly have used the loophole you describe extensively, but that started later, once they were sure there were no repurcussions for the limo dodge.
  - darkcha0s 6y ago
    Uber didn't only become big because of the success in the US. When they scaled their operations, they had enough capital to disregard local laws (Berlin comes to mind), where they simply paid the fines with the capital it had raised, allowing to create a brand and household name. Thats what allowed them to become common everywhere; now that they are regulated, they have quasi no advantage over any ride sharing (even taxi) companies.
    - buran77 6y ago
      This is why fines should increase for repeat offenders to the point where they quickly become unmaintainable as "cost of doing business". They should also always be higher than the estimated profit generated by the offending behavior.
      - smallnamespace 6y ago
        This encourages offenders to establish many small nominally independent franchises so offenses are distributed.
- mabbo 6y ago
  > There's no "kitchen sharing" where you can sell food straight from your private kitchen, "infirmary sharing" where you can pretend you're a doctor or a hospital room, or "legal office sharing" where you can pretend to be a lawyer without meeting all the requirements imposed on those sectors I definitely remember someone trying the kitchen one. Forgetting the name of that startup now, but it's been tried. And given how badly America treats health care and law, I suspect the other two are in stealth mode right now.

by kd5bjo 6y ago

emteycz 6y ago

What's the difference from calling by phone, also served by many limo companies?

buran77 6y ago

Not very familiar with the situation across the pond but in much of Europe the expectation from companies providing commercial transportation services are far higher than just booking method: - Drivers need a different, more expensive license or attestation that needs to be renewed periodically; - Car needs a more expensive commercial insurance that covers all passengers and cargo, to a much higher payout, not just the driver like most Uber drivers have; - Car needs to be inspected far more often to ensure it's roadworthy and can stand that driving regime for the future; - Prices are regulated because the taxi service is seen as closer to public transport than to personal one. So you don't see price fluctuations more than you'd see for the bus; - They need an authorization to serve an area (meaning they were checked according to local regulation); - The company is responsible for its employees in many ways; - And more. A restaurant's kitchen has higher requirements than your private one which makes owning and operating a commercial kitchen far more resource intensive than a private one. There's no "kitchen sharing" where you can sell food straight from your private kitchen, "infirmary sharing" where you can pretend you're a doctor or a hospital room, or "legal office sharing" where you can pretend to be a lawyer without meeting all the requirements imposed on those sectors. This is the loophole Uber exploited. Replace "car" with "house/room" and you get AirBnB. When they had enough of a head start they started complying with some regulation, while still acting like they're a different kind of service for what other regulation is concerned. They want to live on the border and pick and choose what applies to them, something no other commercial service is allowed to do. Except all the other disruptors who raise enough money to afford some fines while they still operate in a grey area. Cost of doing business.

kd5bjo 6y ago
These are per-city rules in much of the US, but the limo companies that Uber was originally subcontracting to had to meet similar requirements in San Francisco as what tou describe. Booking is just the test that was used to determine which set of regulations apply to any given compan. For example, taxi supply was artifically constrained by a medallion system, but there was no such limit on the number of limos allowed to operate. (Past tense b/c I don’t live there anymore and am not up-to-date with current developments) They certainly have used the loophole you describe extensively, but that started later, once they were sure there were no repurcussions for the limo dodge.
- darkcha0s 6y ago
  Uber didn't only become big because of the success in the US. When they scaled their operations, they had enough capital to disregard local laws (Berlin comes to mind), where they simply paid the fines with the capital it had raised, allowing to create a brand and household name. Thats what allowed them to become common everywhere; now that they are regulated, they have quasi no advantage over any ride sharing (even taxi) companies.
  - buran77 6y ago
    This is why fines should increase for repeat offenders to the point where they quickly become unmaintainable as "cost of doing business". They should also always be higher than the estimated profit generated by the offending behavior.
    - smallnamespace 6y ago
      This encourages offenders to establish many small nominally independent franchises so offenses are distributed.
mabbo 6y ago
> There's no "kitchen sharing" where you can sell food straight from your private kitchen, "infirmary sharing" where you can pretend you're a doctor or a hospital room, or "legal office sharing" where you can pretend to be a lawyer without meeting all the requirements imposed on those sectors I definitely remember someone trying the kitchen one. Forgetting the name of that startup now, but it's been tried. And given how badly America treats health care and law, I suspect the other two are in stealth mode right now.