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The real reason there are so many engineers in India is because there are many many crappy engineering colleges in India right now. The last decade saw engineer

by yalogin 16y ago

The real reason there are so many engineers in India is because there are many many crappy engineering colleges in India right now. The last decade saw engineering become a business and every person with a little money looked to start an engineering college. Yes India has a lot of population but the proliferation of colleges is the main reason.

kamaal 16y ago
Supply always meets the demand and not the vice versa, A more appropriate question to ask is 'Why is there so much demand for crappy engineers in India'?
- michaelcampbell 16y ago
  Your question is surely rhetorical, for I would be astounded that you do not know the answer. There is demand for CHEAP engineers. It happens that many are from India. There is no demand for crap, but sadly, there is no demand for quality (over cost) in the eyes of many.
  - kamaal 16y ago
    I am Indian, and I refuse to believe to this 'cheap' meme. FYI, as per Indian standards most of these crappy programmers are paid really well. In most cases better than the good programmers. The thing about good productive programmers is same as that in the US, they tend to stick around for long time in one company, take time out to learn and master the trade. And are not usually on the job lists. On the other hand, due to rapid growth it has become fashionable here for the bad folks to hop a job often. The trick is simple, the performance evaluation happens every year in most companies here. Before their performance is even judged, they fly to some other company. Hiring is often done by HR's. They are given a template of standard questions flicked from the internet. Most of which are factual and don't test a candidate analytical ability. Questions like 'What is a class', 'Can you define X'. If you memorize the answer you can easily pass the interview. There are dumps of questions available for clearing common certifications like SCJP et al. They say some jargons in interview, negotiate a good salary and join the company. By the time their performance is evaluated in the company they go to some other company. This is what is happening in India currently. The good folks are there but they are invisible and often lost in the crowd.
    - michaelcampbell 16y ago
      Well, I'm on the outsourcing end of the equation (although I haven't had a hand in the actual outsourcing itself), and I can say from firsthand experience the 'cheap' meme is accurate. The reason given for removing existing personnel to replace them with outsourced people is twofold. One is cost, and it is the large majority of the sum total of the reasons. The other reason is the erroneous idea that the company can train up a bunch of outsourced people and have a flexible, dynamically sized, workforce. The justification is that "they're just as good". In the 10-12 or so years I have seen this tried, it has yet to even COME CLOSE to what was promised. The reason it keeps happening is the person in charge of the decision gets his bonus for cutting the costs, then moves on, long before the actual long-medium terms costs become known. By then that person is long gone and/or up the corporate ladder to where no one dare say "this sucked, he's the guy that caused it". My view is cynical and jaded, but it is from experience. And I say this not having ever lost my job over it, so that's not a factor.

by yalogin 16y ago

kamaal 16y ago

Supply always meets the demand and not the vice versa, A more appropriate question to ask is 'Why is there so much demand for crappy engineers in India'?

michaelcampbell 16y ago
Your question is surely rhetorical, for I would be astounded that you do not know the answer. There is demand for CHEAP engineers. It happens that many are from India. There is no demand for crap, but sadly, there is no demand for quality (over cost) in the eyes of many.
- kamaal 16y ago
  I am Indian, and I refuse to believe to this 'cheap' meme. FYI, as per Indian standards most of these crappy programmers are paid really well. In most cases better than the good programmers. The thing about good productive programmers is same as that in the US, they tend to stick around for long time in one company, take time out to learn and master the trade. And are not usually on the job lists. On the other hand, due to rapid growth it has become fashionable here for the bad folks to hop a job often. The trick is simple, the performance evaluation happens every year in most companies here. Before their performance is even judged, they fly to some other company. Hiring is often done by HR's. They are given a template of standard questions flicked from the internet. Most of which are factual and don't test a candidate analytical ability. Questions like 'What is a class', 'Can you define X'. If you memorize the answer you can easily pass the interview. There are dumps of questions available for clearing common certifications like SCJP et al. They say some jargons in interview, negotiate a good salary and join the company. By the time their performance is evaluated in the company they go to some other company. This is what is happening in India currently. The good folks are there but they are invisible and often lost in the crowd.
  - michaelcampbell 16y ago
    Well, I'm on the outsourcing end of the equation (although I haven't had a hand in the actual outsourcing itself), and I can say from firsthand experience the 'cheap' meme is accurate. The reason given for removing existing personnel to replace them with outsourced people is twofold. One is cost, and it is the large majority of the sum total of the reasons. The other reason is the erroneous idea that the company can train up a bunch of outsourced people and have a flexible, dynamically sized, workforce. The justification is that "they're just as good". In the 10-12 or so years I have seen this tried, it has yet to even COME CLOSE to what was promised. The reason it keeps happening is the person in charge of the decision gets his bonus for cutting the costs, then moves on, long before the actual long-medium terms costs become known. By then that person is long gone and/or up the corporate ladder to where no one dare say "this sucked, he's the guy that caused it". My view is cynical and jaded, but it is from experience. And I say this not having ever lost my job over it, so that's not a factor.