4 ms·

Please dont disable auto-updates. Instead configure your Windows machine to schedule them. Look your notifications. Treat it as a Car, not as a Toy.

tokamak-teapot 6y ago
I used to say the same, but my perception - and I know it's not reality, but every day with it feels like this: * I log in. * I start setting things up so I can start work. * I'm notified about critical updates. There will be a forced reboot soon... * I'm watching out in case something pops up while I'm typing and whatever key I was about to press causes the 'reboot' question to be answered - and I wait several minutes and lose flow entirely. * I log in. * I start setting things up again as they were so I can start work again. * There are more critical updates... Turning off auto-update is not an option, because there are so many security holes and I don't want to end up a victim. I also don't like having to fight to try and keep the OS from doing something it will push against, so trying to creep around letting it do updates when I'm not busy and reboots when I want it to but not asking me - waiting to be told - it's hard work and stressful. Windows is an amazing piece of tech and gets better all the time, but I find myself much more able to stay in the 'flow' and avoid stress in MacOS or Linux.
- Delk 6y ago
  To be fair, I get notifications of "important updates" on my Fedora Workstation more often than I get on Windows. (Or at least I think I do; I don't use Windows that often.) Fedora also wants to reboot for nearly every bunch of updated packages that doesn't consist entirely of top-level applications, which seems to mean at least 95% of the times it wants to update. I think I get it why it wants to reboot: not only is it probably somewhat safer in terms of not screwing anything up in running session, but you can't be sure some running application or service isn't still using an outdated version of a library until you've restarted it. (Not to mention that the Linux kernel updates every week or so nowadays, but those are definitely not the only ones that trigger an update [edit: by which I of course mean "trigger a reboot"].) I tend to not use the graphical software updater and just ignore its notifications instead, and just update from the command line and reboot when it suits me. That does allow me to not have my workflow interrupted but it doesn't change the fact that I still do get notified of updates that require some kind of action pretty often. On the other hand, checking for those updates doesn't burn minutes on end of CPU time every time the OS is booted, as it seems to do on Windows 10.
  - horstmeyer 6y ago
    I don't use Windows, but from the comments it seems that Windows just forcibly reboots after some time. I'm sure your Fedora workstation will ask you to reboot, but not just do it without you triggering the action.
    - Delk 6y ago
      AFAIK in Windows there's generally a prompt for rebooting either now or after a delay that can be selected from given options. (I'm not a heavy Windows user either so I might not be right.) I've sometimes found Windows to have rebooted by itself, but that might have been because I wasn't there to react to the prompt. But no, obviously Fedora doesn't force a reboot, nor does it give a prompt you can accidentally reboot through. However, a part of the complaints (which I fully understand) seemed to be about the frequency of the updates, and in the name of honesty I just wanted to point out that's not really just a Windows issue.
MengerSponge 6y ago
If I'm on a road trip when my car comes due for service, it doesn't automatically exit the interstate and drive to the first available mechanic. I wish Windows would let me treat it like a car.
jjoonathan 6y ago
Letting windows update is treating it like a toy. Remember that time Microsoft let FTDI brick a bunch of knockoffs through the first party update mechanism? Remember when they locked up a bunch of embedded devices with Windows 7 support nags? Remember when they dropped Candy Crush in your start menu, when they decided local accounts now had to be cloud linked, and when they enabled Cortana by default and made it increasingly difficult to opt-out? When they decided to take 30 minutes of your morning without asking (hope you weren't planning on using the computer for anything important)? When it comes to high-reliability embedded OSes, Microsoft is a case study in inept paternalism. Updates regularly cause problems. Between updates and malware spreading behind a NAT, I'm not at all convinced updates are the lesser of two evils. Ideally, these applications wouldn't run windows, but since they often do, IMO the best approach is to isolate them to the greatest degree possible which includes blocking auto-update (note: not turning it off, blocking it, along with everything else you can get away with).
- i_am_proteus 6y ago
  Local accounts don't have to be cloud-linked! Microsoft just employs dark patterns to make it hard to find how to opt out, and prompts you to "finish setting up your PC" by creating a Microsoft account, after every reboot. I've also rebooted to find out about Microsoft Edge, the new browser that's now pinned to my taskbar, even after removing Edge several times. MS finished making Windows into a stable, usable OS and then promptly began turning it into adware.
  - alpaca128 6y ago
    > Local accounts don't have to be cloud-linked! I just installed a new Windows 10 VM last week and there was no option to use a local account anymore. None. No dark pattern menu link somewhere hidden in a corner of the screen with low contrast, only the choice between logging in or creating a new Microsoft account. Which took me longer than the whole rest of the installation, because as it turns out generic addresses like "fk_u_ms@outlook.com" are already taken and Microsoft seems very anal about certain choice words. But at the same time they don't seem to mind if I enter a date from 2018 as my birthdate and the calendar dialog includes decades of future dates, but at least they got the forced online account working...
jimnotgym 6y ago
Or join your machine to a domain. No ads, managed updates. I have said it before, but around half of the machines in my estate are macs, and I have many more reported update problems from them. I think a lot of it is caused by inconsistent updates.
- vondur 6y ago
  How many people are running their own AD setups? I don't think this is very useful advice.
  - DrPhish 6y ago
    To be fair, Samba4 setups are super easy, so for the HN crowd it probably isn't terrible advice. I've been running one at home since the first TP in 2006, and I don't spend any time thinking about or maintaining them (running on Debian)
  - jimnotgym 6y ago
    I would have thought at least some of the people at hn work for companies?
alibarber 6y ago
So - like a new car, service about once a year then, after the first year? I wish that was the case.

tokamak-teapot 6y ago

I used to say the same, but my perception - and I know it's not reality, but every day with it feels like this: * I log in. * I start setting things up so I can start work. * I'm notified about critical updates. There will be a forced reboot soon... * I'm watching out in case something pops up while I'm typing and whatever key I was about to press causes the 'reboot' question to be answered - and I wait several minutes and lose flow entirely. * I log in. * I start setting things up again as they were so I can start work again. * There are more critical updates... Turning off auto-update is not an option, because there are so many security holes and I don't want to end up a victim. I also don't like having to fight to try and keep the OS from doing something it will push against, so trying to creep around letting it do updates when I'm not busy and reboots when I want it to but not asking me - waiting to be told - it's hard work and stressful. Windows is an amazing piece of tech and gets better all the time, but I find myself much more able to stay in the 'flow' and avoid stress in MacOS or Linux.

Delk 6y ago
To be fair, I get notifications of "important updates" on my Fedora Workstation more often than I get on Windows. (Or at least I think I do; I don't use Windows that often.) Fedora also wants to reboot for nearly every bunch of updated packages that doesn't consist entirely of top-level applications, which seems to mean at least 95% of the times it wants to update. I think I get it why it wants to reboot: not only is it probably somewhat safer in terms of not screwing anything up in running session, but you can't be sure some running application or service isn't still using an outdated version of a library until you've restarted it. (Not to mention that the Linux kernel updates every week or so nowadays, but those are definitely not the only ones that trigger an update [edit: by which I of course mean "trigger a reboot"].) I tend to not use the graphical software updater and just ignore its notifications instead, and just update from the command line and reboot when it suits me. That does allow me to not have my workflow interrupted but it doesn't change the fact that I still do get notified of updates that require some kind of action pretty often. On the other hand, checking for those updates doesn't burn minutes on end of CPU time every time the OS is booted, as it seems to do on Windows 10.
- horstmeyer 6y ago
  I don't use Windows, but from the comments it seems that Windows just forcibly reboots after some time. I'm sure your Fedora workstation will ask you to reboot, but not just do it without you triggering the action.
  - Delk 6y ago
    AFAIK in Windows there's generally a prompt for rebooting either now or after a delay that can be selected from given options. (I'm not a heavy Windows user either so I might not be right.) I've sometimes found Windows to have rebooted by itself, but that might have been because I wasn't there to react to the prompt. But no, obviously Fedora doesn't force a reboot, nor does it give a prompt you can accidentally reboot through. However, a part of the complaints (which I fully understand) seemed to be about the frequency of the updates, and in the name of honesty I just wanted to point out that's not really just a Windows issue.

MengerSponge 6y ago

If I'm on a road trip when my car comes due for service, it doesn't automatically exit the interstate and drive to the first available mechanic. I wish Windows would let me treat it like a car.

jjoonathan 6y ago

Letting windows update is treating it like a toy. Remember that time Microsoft let FTDI brick a bunch of knockoffs through the first party update mechanism? Remember when they locked up a bunch of embedded devices with Windows 7 support nags? Remember when they dropped Candy Crush in your start menu, when they decided local accounts now had to be cloud linked, and when they enabled Cortana by default and made it increasingly difficult to opt-out? When they decided to take 30 minutes of your morning without asking (hope you weren't planning on using the computer for anything important)? When it comes to high-reliability embedded OSes, Microsoft is a case study in inept paternalism. Updates regularly cause problems. Between updates and malware spreading behind a NAT, I'm not at all convinced updates are the lesser of two evils. Ideally, these applications wouldn't run windows, but since they often do, IMO the best approach is to isolate them to the greatest degree possible which includes blocking auto-update (note: not turning it off, blocking it, along with everything else you can get away with).

i_am_proteus 6y ago
Local accounts don't have to be cloud-linked! Microsoft just employs dark patterns to make it hard to find how to opt out, and prompts you to "finish setting up your PC" by creating a Microsoft account, after every reboot. I've also rebooted to find out about Microsoft Edge, the new browser that's now pinned to my taskbar, even after removing Edge several times. MS finished making Windows into a stable, usable OS and then promptly began turning it into adware.
- alpaca128 6y ago
  > Local accounts don't have to be cloud-linked! I just installed a new Windows 10 VM last week and there was no option to use a local account anymore. None. No dark pattern menu link somewhere hidden in a corner of the screen with low contrast, only the choice between logging in or creating a new Microsoft account. Which took me longer than the whole rest of the installation, because as it turns out generic addresses like "fk_u_ms@outlook.com" are already taken and Microsoft seems very anal about certain choice words. But at the same time they don't seem to mind if I enter a date from 2018 as my birthdate and the calendar dialog includes decades of future dates, but at least they got the forced online account working...

jimnotgym 6y ago

Or join your machine to a domain. No ads, managed updates. I have said it before, but around half of the machines in my estate are macs, and I have many more reported update problems from them. I think a lot of it is caused by inconsistent updates.

vondur 6y ago
How many people are running their own AD setups? I don't think this is very useful advice.
- DrPhish 6y ago
  To be fair, Samba4 setups are super easy, so for the HN crowd it probably isn't terrible advice. I've been running one at home since the first TP in 2006, and I don't spend any time thinking about or maintaining them (running on Debian)
- jimnotgym 6y ago
  I would have thought at least some of the people at hn work for companies?

alibarber 6y ago

So - like a new car, service about once a year then, after the first year? I wish that was the case.